an Independent Music General Trend?

[theblackBay]

Does this sound familiar:

Johnny Two tone sets out and learns to play guitar he likes a lot of music so he learns all his favorite cover band songs then he decides to record his own songs he comes onto a site not unlike this and gets told by all the old guys that came from the "Analogue" era the same old bullshit myths about the music industry which have been forced upon themselves from the guys above them such as:

1. if it's not in a Recording Studio it's not done "right"

2. You can't Record Drum Tracks at home you don't have the "rooms"

3. You can't get good real sounds out of "plug-ins"

4. You don't have the Right equipment or you need "Pro Tools" to get he 192khz sound?? ha ha

5. Compression is the mystical all encompassing Processor that needs to be outboard gear to get a "real" compression sound .... no no it's no just a malfunctioning volume control.

7. oh and don’t even start me about all those “Bad” Reverbs.

6. Digital is "Harsh" Analogue is "Warm" (we haven’t heard of EQ)

but because he is still really determined he persists and learns about the bullshit and then realizes that the main reason the "Studio" sound is a more "Real" sound is because if the "Studio sound" was paid for by your record company they own all the right to that recording instance and then he realizes that the X factor is determined by how much of his ass he would sell off etc etc.

so he does it himself but because that Kernel of doubt has been put into his mind at the end result he never really has the faith in it then some old "master" tells him that it sounds so "home Recorded" after he knows it was of course.

so he makes a my space and ends up kind of asking people to buy his record like as if they would be doing him a favor!

like "Hey buy my recording ........it's pretty good (for a home recording)"

Do i want to buy that??

Does that sound familiar?

if you have the Faith because you have the message and/or the reason to get the sound good then you should tell the people that you are doing them the favor by producing the sound that will change their perspective on life.

the secret of Art is an information Transfer you are transferring a subconscious message to the receiver the buyer. You decide or sometime don't what that is.

AND the key to doing that is ignoring most of the negative "can't dos" and breaking all and more of those sad sad backward myths from a past time when Recording companies INC owned the "Means of Production" and you did not have the opportunity.

but you do now so remember it's all just data bits on a CD anything past a $3 reject shop mic pretty much has the same frequency response as any other mic and a guitar is a fucking guitar so go write a hit Independent artists.

but when you do fucking believe in it if you have a message and remember you are the one giving something not the other way around, so represent that in your marketing.

They have an opportunity to buy your CD if they are lucky they get the message you created it.

And a big fuck you to the "can't do its".
no i don't mean that you guys are great!

[eeb]

I think you'll find that most people on this community agree that a great sounding recording (what you'd call a real studio recording) is not determined by how much gear you have or "need" do you need to record all analogue? hells no.. you you need expensive outboard gear "it's nice but you don't need it at all" if you're digital do you need a pro tools hd system "fuck that noise" but what you DO need and what a professional studio will provide is experience.. experience is EVERYTHING on a recording.. it's not what gear you own.. it's how you use it.. so your johnny two tone comes on here and asks a bunch of questions about recording and yes some people will suggest to just go to professional studio.. why? because people are idiots and completely ignorant to what goes into this field. Any fool with a mic and cool edit thinks they can record something "close to studio quality" it simply isn't true.. The guy that buys studio gear to record their band to "save money" will be greatly disappointed and is better off paying someone else to do it.. it takes years of practice and research to start getting good at this stuff.

but the most important part.. the thing that sometimes some of us forget about is not even in the engineer's hands.. if johnny two tone writes amazing music.... it will always be amazing music no matter how it's recorded.

anyone who says not recording in a pro studio isn't "right" is wrong.. there is no right way to record your song..

but if you have no experience the studio with the experienced engineer will win a million times over.. every time.. no exceptions..

There was a great post in the mic forums called "do you really need expensive gear" that covered the misconceptions of equipment vs. actual know how and talent.. take a look at it.. it's very informative

[cusebassman]

So your issue is with... the people on the homerecording forum that told you you will not get a professional sound in your house?

If that's the case, well... you probably won't. Like eeb said, its mostly due to lack of experience - however, some of the so-called "myths" you stated are, to a point, accurate.

I do agree that it is nonsense to think that you can't get good results unless you use outboard processing, analog gear, etc. However, for one thing, I have heard shiiiity reverbs For another (and this is the big one) - if you have a shitty room, the recording is going to reflect it, especially with instruments like drums and acoustic piano. Acoustic guitar is also tough but easier to deal with.

The reason "real" or "professional" studios still make money is because they combine the (preumably) best of everything: space, equipment, and talent (engineering, that is). Sad, but true

[Mindset]

Listen to Priceless on my www.myspace.com/mindsetentertainmentinc
Track was recorded at a Hilton hotel room on a simple pro tools rig. Everything mixed down except my verse. It shows that equipment only matters a little, just as long as you have the tools needed to make changes. Like everyone says Experience is the key. I can go and record in a million dollar facility with a flick of my wrist if I wanted to.

Sure everyone can record now, and labels lost to that, but as for Opprotunities, damn near all indie artists will not make it. 95% of yall will never get the opprotunity to do anything with their music. But we do it for the love of music.

Is it really negative cant's?

Or behind it lays postive results?

In number 1, if it's not recorded in a 'real' studio it's not done right. Sort of has some truth to it. Depends on where you want to go. Owning a record label, I see no choice of releasing material that sits at pre-production. Not anything for sale
I don't think people say you can't get good sound out of plug-ins. I hear many people talk about plug-ins vs outboard. But does hold somewhat true. Plug-Ins may sound good, but not as good as much of the mid to hi end equipment.

and finally

but you do now so remember it's all just data bits on a CD anything past a $3 reject shop mic pretty much has the same frequency response as any other mic

That's the most bullshit I have ever heard in my life.

[theblackBay]

Ebb

Cubaseman

I agree with you in principal except i only hope that this is all a market system weed out and the ones that care enough will put the time in and pretty much ignore anyone anyhow, but still my comment serves a purpose and it is to tell them when they are at that stage "if you have something good you CAN do it".

so DO it.



mindset i'm pretty much just going to ignore you is that ok?

just because i will give you a demonstration if you want, now the music may not be to your actual taste but trust me you are wrong, as far as the Plugins and mics go i mean anything above a $3 say $35 or $50 maybe for what you do with live sound and response maybe for you but what mic do you use a beta57? 58? yeah i think superlux makes a copy for like $45.00 same frequency response pretty much.

same with he rooms dudes so you are saying that you don’t have a room to use for room mic you know to then side-chain or run parallel ok lets say you don’t.....generate the drums with a god dam drum machine midi operated then "room" a sound and run it along side?
It’s just so laughable to think that there myspace fan base will come back at them with something like:

I REALLY LOVE YOUR SOUND! But what did you use for your Room sound I’m just not sure about it, it sounded a little constricted maybe you needed to pull the 60 hum on it?

but the experience i agree with you but that other young guy came on here i notice that's what he was asking for, experience. not magic, not blood.

and with the CD are you contesting that data is not on the CD? i'm lost?

[theblackBay]

http://www.theblackbay.com/windex.php

it's 2.5 Mb

in the album section.
It’s the only link that works.


a tiny interlude it is actually called (unfortunately) humane here.(i can't change that)

think about what is happening later on at Vivian Caplans house she's a ruthless woman a kind of "do what it takes" person but she has her own issues.

I’m not making that up the inspiration is real.


OH turn the sound off the Button up there or download the song (i'll have to see to that button)

i'll post some more traditional tracks soon.

[eeb]

we've been over the cheap knock off mic vs. the real deal thing many times in my short amount of time i've spent on this forum..

from what i gather if you get a knock off of say a sm57.. you'll get a close frequency response but the biggest difference with be in the actual construction and durability of the mic.. after replacing your knock off 3 or 4 times.. the original sm57 will still be like new (assuming you take care of your shit) I really have no experience with this to tell you if that is true or not.. and the subject goes way beyond that.

and yes you can record is a non treated room that isn't ideal for recording.. actually i don't think i'd be too far off if i'd guess that most of us in this forum have less than ideal conditions for recording..

The thing i don't think you are grasping about a properly treated room is it WILL make your job easier by removing problem frequencies from the equation.. sure you can get pretty damn decent sounds out of just about any room (especially when you close mic the source) but a properly treated room will save you time and help with a overall easier recording session from start to finish. Hell i wish i had the cash to treat my tracking room... but you have to work with what you've got..

And i agree the general population is not going even think about how you treated your walls.. all they care about is do they like the song? or not?

alot goes into that desicion.. obviously the music and the song itself is ##1 so yes you have something good.. you can do it..

but there's more than just that.. some people are completely oblivious to the recording process.. they don't ever even think about it.. a really really shitty sound can translate into someone not liking a song they'd otherwise love.. they'll just feel like there's something wrong with it... doesn't quite sound like other stuff they listen to .. they probably won't even try to figure out why they don't like it..

this is were a good sounding recording come into play.. it's that first impression..

[cusebassman]

I'm not sure if this is a real person or a spammer/troll trying to fuck with us, but I'm done wasting my time. An expensive microphone will have lower self-noise, better construction, and far better overall sound than a shit-cheap mic. I've experienced it myself in purchasing various mics.

Beyond that, I'm done... too tired to argue over intangibles today

[theblackBay]

cya later guys.

i like the self noise Cubase man.

give me the noise.

cya later.

[cusebassman]

...its cusebass - not cubase!!!

That's twice in about 3 days, and I've never had this problem before. If you want to go make world-class recordings with a radio shack dynamic and a boombox, prove us wrong. But dammit, my username is cusebassman!

[pipelineaudio]

Being an "old analogue era" guy, I figured I'd respond to this

Originally Posted by theblackBay

1. if it's not in a Recording Studio it's not done "right"

Never heard this from an old analogue era guy

2. You can't Record Drum Tracks at home you don't have the "rooms"

Are you sure you arent paraphrasing? I would be more correct to say "you can't get the sound of room XYZ at room YZX"

3. You can't get good real sounds out of "plug-ins"

I only hear this from people who haven't tried the right plugins, marketing guys targeting noobz and PTards, and noobz and PTards who have been marketed at

4. You don't have the Right equipment or you need "Pro Tools" to get he 192khz sound?? ha ha

Pretty wide net there, but I would say if you haven't got a 3/4" deepwell socket, you arent going to tighten a set of demolition pegs onto a KHE Geisha Freecoaster hub. The only people who say you NEED Pro Tools are marketing nuts, noobz and PTards. Real engineers with Pro Tools will not say you need Pro Tools, unless you want to directly open a Pro Tools project, and even that has exceptions.

And reccomending 192khz from a analogue guy is kind of an oxymoron

5. Compression is the mystical all encompassing Processor that needs to be outboard gear to get a "real" compression sound .... no no it's no just a malfunctioning volume control.

There are those who say that, but they haven't given plugins a fair shake. This is mostly a result of marketing nuts who find it is a LOT easier to sell someone a hardware unit than an easily pirated software tool.

A compressor is not a volume control of any sort

7. oh and don’t even start me about all those “Bad” Reverbs.

Which ones? The giant variety of plugin reverbs that are made by noobz and marketing tards by cutting and pasting code from The Engineer's Guide to DSP?

Yeah those DO suck, and result from their makers never being within 10 miles of a real studio or even a cheapass reverb processor. They stick a new GUI on the same old crap algo and try to market it as the new thing

6. Digital is "Harsh" Analogue is "Warm" (we haven’t heard of EQ)

There are many many many reasons for this saying, some of which are even true

but because he is still really determined he persists and learns about the bullshit and then realizes that the main reason the "Studio" sound is a more "Real" sound is because if the "Studio sound" was paid for by your record company they own all the right to that recording instance and then he realizes that the X factor is determined by how much of his ass he would sell off etc etc.

Studios have as much to do with record companies as photographers have to do with McDonalds

You are a strange bird

[TerraMortim]

Originally Posted by theblackBay

Does this sound familiar:

Johnny Two tone sets out and learns to play guitar he likes a lot of music so he learns all his favorite cover band songs then he decides to record his own songs he comes onto a site not unlike this and gets told by all the old guys that came from the "Analogue" era the same old bullshit myths about the music industry which have been forced upon themselves from the guys above them such as:

1. if it's not in a Recording Studio it's not done "right"

2. You can't Record Drum Tracks at home you don't have the "rooms"

3. You can't get good real sounds out of "plug-ins"

4. You don't have the Right equipment or you need "Pro Tools" to get he 192khz sound?? ha ha

5. Compression is the mystical all encompassing Processor that needs to be outboard gear to get a "real" compression sound .... no no it's no just a malfunctioning volume control.

7. oh and don’t even start me about all those “Bad” Reverbs.

6. Digital is "Harsh" Analogue is "Warm" (we haven’t heard of EQ)

but because he is still really determined he persists and learns about the bullshit and then realizes that the main reason the "Studio" sound is a more "Real" sound is because if the "Studio sound" was paid for by your record company they own all the right to that recording instance and then he realizes that the X factor is determined by how much of his ass he would sell off etc etc.

so he does it himself but because that Kernel of doubt has been put into his mind at the end result he never really has the faith in it then some old "master" tells him that it sounds so "home Recorded" after he knows it was of course.

so he makes a my space and ends up kind of asking people to buy his record like as if they would be doing him a favor!

like "Hey buy my recording ........it's pretty good (for a home recording)"

Do i want to buy that??

Does that sound familiar?

if you have the Faith because you have the message and/or the reason to get the sound good then you should tell the people that you are doing them the favor by producing the sound that will change their perspective on life.

the secret of Art is an information Transfer you are transferring a subconscious message to the receiver the buyer. You decide or sometime don't what that is.

AND the key to doing that is ignoring most of the negative "can't dos" and breaking all and more of those sad sad backward myths from a past time when Recording companies INC owned the "Means of Production" and you did not have the opportunity.

but you do now so remember it's all just data bits on a CD anything past a $3 reject shop mic pretty much has the same frequency response as any other mic and a guitar is a fucking guitar so go write a hit Independent artists.

but when you do fucking believe in it if you have a message and remember you are the one giving something not the other way around, so represent that in your marketing.

They have an opportunity to buy your CD if they are lucky they get the message you created it.

And a big fuck you to the "can't do its".
no i don't mean that you guys are great!

AMEN!!!!!!!!!

[TerraMortim]

not ALL analogue or old school guys are like that, but there is a very large population who will do anything to keep their "throne" so to speak. People generally don't like change, and will even do and say the stupidest things in order to prevent it, regardless if it is actually better one way or the other.

I agree with the overall sentiment of the OP. THere are a few things I don't FULLY agree with, but do under some circumstances. The big issue with the mic statement is that there are some voices that really do see a huge difference with a nice expensive condenser. For one vocalist I work with, I tried everything that was a reasonable price. Anything from an sm58 to some of the more reasonably prices neumann tlm103. I couldn't get anything to reproduce some of the nice particular high frequencies in her voice properly. THey always either sounded a bit harsh, or simply were so understated that EQing it would just sound like shit. On the flip side, for some vocalists..it matters less than what colour of XLR cable you grab.


but yeah pipeline. I know exactly what this guy is talking about. You may be one of the old school guys who actually uses their brain, but it's astonishing the ammount of old school recording guys who have that exact mindset. It's part of the reason I don't really get along with most old school analogue guys, which is a shame. I could learn allot of cool tricks from them. I just can't put up with their attitudes, and elitism.

What he means by record companies and studios...why is the price for a recording studio so high? . . . . Record Companies. The studios are charging what they're used to getting because labels on that level are loaded...which also drives up the price of the audio gear since there will always be rich studios who will be willing to buy Pro Tools HD for it's price, or RADAR for THAT ungodly price. None of that ultra expensive audio gear costs that much to produce.. but there are people willing to pay that price for it, so they get away with it. Now the industry of recording, gear making, and labels is so concreted in place that it self-perpetuates.

Bad reverb is all in the eye of the beholder. hehe There are just different sounds, and sometimes a cheap reverb is more appropriate to treat a certain sound... but yeah..there are so many really high quality plugin reverbs.. I've been awestruck by ArtsAcoustic's reverb.

Also what I believe he's on about is there are quite a few people on this particular forum, who will instead of giving people advice, will just cut them down with elitist hot air about how they should just give up and go to a "real studio", with a "real engineer", because it's "simply impossible for them to get good results" or...what I always laugh at "something sellable". There are so many albums recorded in houses, and not even just recently, or even with just digital gear. All a studio is, is a room (granted it's ususally a nice sounding one) and a stack of gear, and some big competing egos. The thing is, for a lot of applications you could find some really cool sounding rooms elsewhere, just with more work.

But anyway I think pipeline is one of the few old school guys who has escaped the madness. There is no right or wrong, just different choices that will sound different, but with the right person doing the recording not really any better or worse.

[pipelineaudio]

Originally Posted by TerraMortim

not ALL analogue or old school guys are like that, but there is a very large population who will do anything to keep their "throne" so to speak.

name one

People generally don't like change, and will even do and say the stupidest things in order to prevent it, regardless if it is actually better one way or the other.

people maybe, but here we are talking about audio engineers who almost to a man embraced ANY change which could enhance their workflow. Audio engineers as a group tended to keep a VERY close eye on advances in medical and space technology and how those could be applied to the recording field

There are very few of these guys left, they quit the business because of the retards you are talking about that DO the stupid things that you are mistakenly attributing to older engineers

The big issue with the mic statement is that there are some voices that really do see a huge difference with a nice expensive condenser.

Real engineers also care about science, as in testable, repeatable results. Theyll slag cheap crappy mics if those mics cant test well. See some of Harvey Gerst's excellent mic posts that show how scam artist mic companies fake these measurments.

No real engineer out there is going to slag a mic * just * because it costs 50 bucks, but will happily slag a 5000 dollar mic if it doesn't test well. Its not about the money, its about the performance

but yeah pipeline. I know exactly what this guy is talking about. You may be one of the old school guys who actually uses their brain, but it's astonishing the ammount of old school recording guys who have that exact mindset. It's part of the reason I don't really get along with most old school analogue guys, which is a shame. I could learn allot of cool tricks from them. I just can't put up with their attitudes, and elitism.

I think you are confusing old school engineers (which there really isnt such a thing, as any engineer worth a crap tests and embraces any technology which is helpful he comes across, which means "old school engineers" are usually on the cutting edge, technology wise over the general community), with pretengineers and Conservatory/full sail grads....these are not the same thing

What he means by record companies and studios...why is the price for a recording studio so high?

Studio prices are lower now than in the 80's, not adjusted for inflation, I mean lower than the 80's in 1980's dollars

studios that were 200 an hour in the 80's go for 20-40$ per hour now. You guys are WAY off here.

A properly equipped studio catered to take all comers cannot even keep the lights on at these prices, thats why they are going away, never mind being able to pay staff

Record Companies. The studios are charging what they're used to getting because labels on that level are loaded

Anyone who books a studio will tell you the LAST person likely to pay their bill in full is a record company. And record companies are loaded? Go google some record company news and youll see how far off that is.

which also drives up the price of the audio gear since there will always be rich studios who will be willing to buy Pro Tools HD for it's price,

Gear is cheaper now than it has ever been, by exponential factors.

I see that I am correct that you are confusing "old school engineers" with PT users, there is some overlap, but a LOT less overlap than there is between new engineers, pretengineers and PT users. If you think PT has much penetration in the old school engineer market this would explain the confusion. Go look it up.

None of that ultra expensive audio gear costs that much to produce

True, in most cases, which is why its so cheap. The only people driving gear prices UP are noobs and pretengineers that hear a piece of gear was used on some record so they pay more for it and drive the price up.

In the 90's there was a piece of shit 13 bit digital reverb that a magazine showed Obi O'Brien using on some hit singles. This piece of shit went from 200$ used to 25,000$

Turns out Obi was using it as a coffee coaster and it wasn't in the signal path

Also what I believe he's on about is there are quite a few people on this particular forum, who will instead of giving people advice, will just cut them down with elitist hot air about how they should just give up and go to a "real studio", with a "real engineer", because it's "simply impossible for them to get good results"

And yet these guys are still hanging around, usually happy to help when the goals are realistic, perhaps its better not to dismiss them out of hand?

what I always laugh at "something sellable".

And old school engineers note and lament that any retard with a soundblaster can make something "radio quality" or sellable today. Do you have them saying something else? They want the bar to be raised back up above this smashed garbage that pretengineers are filling the airwaves up.

Volume Wars are NOT from the old school, its straight from the noobz

[billyshuler]

Originally Posted by theblackBay

Does this sound familiar:

1. if it's not in a Recording Studio it's not done "right"

The engineer at the studio knows what he's doing while Johnny Two tone is looking on the home recording message board for answers. Even if Johnny Two tone does manage to do it "right" who do you think will do the better job?

[theblackBay]

I'm afraid your calm outward posture and even handed thinking are the ideal of an analogue generation not the norm.

Pipeline

you are the golden yellow beam of analogue light ontop of that brown analogue mountain while the others are wading in the analogue mud.

Pipeline

you are the analogue capacitor that is keeping the wild voltage fluctuation of misconception flowing to the warm lit valve.

while the others are using that SAME valve as a reading light.


.

you know what, for the sake of argument i'll say your right on the compression too.

[TerraMortim]

yes exactly what he said. You are the exeption obviously if you can actual use logic when you speak about audio. You must be lucky because I'm shocked at the ammount of old school guys who can't even hardly record anything because they are so stuck in the ONE way to do it.

I am starting to put some of the PT users into the old school now, cause PT is kind of hmmm..archaic in my opinion. Overpriced and underfunctioned. I could name a lot of them if you really want, but 1. They wouldn't be anyone you would know...I don't even pretend to know any "celebrety engineers" and 2. It's besides the point. In my experience, that's who I've dealt with from the old school, and no doubt the same with theblackbay. Maybe I just haven't been around the real star old school guys, but living in Vancouver there aren't really any of them around. You must have been lucky to work with the people who actually did shit worthwhile and exploited technology to their own wills, instead of denouncing it because it was new and meant a change in the way they worked.

ABout the studio prices and such..yes, exactly. Why is this..well music is changing as a business, and you are right labels aren't loaded anymore so much. The reason why the prices haven';t gone up is because no one will pay it. The reason why the studios cost so much to operate, is because the gear is insanely priced that all the moronic musicians think will make them rockstars... but it's a chicken and egg thing... you had SSL selling multi million dollar consoles because big studios were being paid by big labels to buy them...the staff prices are a result of what the big labels would be willing to pay. Music industry folks didn't always make such high wages. WHen I talk about the big labels, I mean the big 5 media companies that own a large percentage of all of the media, including music on the entire planet.

Anyway, can't think of anything else to say!

[theblackBay]

You are a down right decent person and correct on every turn.

when you say PT do you mean "Pro tools" when i first used it i was embarrassed at how backward it was.

i don't disrespect it but it's just not worth the money or the hassle when i can do the same thing with any DAW.

we were discussing it the other day and the consensus was that Pro Tools was designed for people that came from out of the box desks and wanted to start to make the transition.. all the other DAWs have been built from the ground up in the digital domain.

in say 3 years people will be saying "oh yeah, i remember Pro Tools".

no disrespect but the market has moved on having said all of that of course Pro tools is just as good as any other DAW just not worth the money with less features..

any how I’m out of English also, so have a good day good sir.

[pipelineaudio]

Please dont lump in PT with the old school engineers, PT is the ADAT of the 00's and the same sort of person for the most part uses PT as used ADATs back in the day. Often the same people as well.

And those other stick in the mud types? Call em "Luddites"

Wave at them as they plod along on their horse and buggy while you pass them in your nice fast car. There's something to be said for the technology in every era, but it sure is a good idea to know whats on the horizon. I try and use the best regardless of when it comes from. My DAW is updated almost daily, while some of my mics and mic preamps were made just post-war, they coexist with brand new ones that do the same job differently.

[cusebassman]

People's minds won't be changed by a few posts, so all I will say is that I am surprised there is more than one person spewing this nonsense. Staples of audio production, such as compression, are being torn down, when they have been the main tools for creating good music for decades. If you honestly think that you can spend 30 bucks on a mic, stick it in the middle of an untreated, empty square room and record any and everything you throw at it perfectly, and simply fix it "in the mix", then you obviously have never sat down in front of a microphone... apparently you've just been reading product descriptions and 'user reviews' on musiciansfriend.com.

The few things I will address:

Originally Posted by TerraMortim

Also what I believe he's on about is there are quite a few people on this particular forum, who will instead of giving people advice, will just cut them down with elitist hot air about how they should just give up and go to a "real studio", with a "real engineer", because it's "simply impossible for them to get good results" or...what I always laugh at "something sellable".

I believe that in most threads, you will find that the only time people are advised to rent some studio time (which is by research much cheaper now than it has ever been), is when they have a full band and little time. I'm sorry, but your iMac, an 8-channel firewire interface and a heap of MXL mics in an untreated room with even great instruments aren't going to get you very far in a short span of time because 1) the engineering talent isn't there, and 2) the equipment and space aren't up to snuff.

You can get passing results with that stuff - don't get me wrong - I encourage anyone to start out with such a setup, as it is a good place to start learning. But you aren't going to generate anything halfway decent until you've spent months/years reading about recording practices, and running tests trial-and-error over and over.

Most of those responses DO encourage people to go forth into this expensive, time-consuming hobby. However, reality will set in sooner or later, and it might as well be before you buy 2000 dollars worth of gear you are never going to learn how to use, that could have otherwise been put toward that demo that your band won't finish making because you break up in the meantime

If you do go forth and buy some gear, and start poking around this site, you will eventually find the answers to your questions, so don't bash the site simply because someone (probably chessrock ) told you to go to a studio. If you're simply looking for pro sound in a short span of time, you should go to a studio - no learning curve, and you can focus on the playing. If you want to focus on recording as a separate hobby, go for it, expecting a long journey.

Originally Posted by TerraMortim

There are so many albums recorded in houses, and not even just recently, or even with just digital gear. All a studio is, is a room (granted it's ususally a nice sounding one) and a stack of gear, and some big competing egos. The thing is, for a lot of applications you could find some really cool sounding rooms elsewhere, just with more work.

This point I will go both ways on. Plenty of "big name" artists have rented out houses and set up recording space, or have done it in their own homes. However - any documentary or footage I've ever seen of an artist or band doing it in their own home was 1) after they had made a lot of money, and 2) when they had set the space up properly.

One good example that pulls everyone's points together is the case of the Travelling Wilburys. As far as I recall, they rented a house to record the bulk of the tracks for the albums they put out, and they hauled all the usual analog stuff out to wherever it was - 24-track 2" tape machines, console, outboard pre's, compressors, etc., all of the instruments, and so on. However, when you watch them record, the vocals and some of the acoustics are done in a little room they constructed within the house for proper isolation.

Some of the other instruments weren't recorded in iso, in fact, they were recorded in an open room. Can't speak to the quality of it, more than the fact that it was a fairly large space, so perhaps the reflections in the room weren't so bad.

Another good example is the last album Fleetwood Mac released. Lindsay Buckingham owns his own full analog studio setup, so they also rented a house, shipped all of his recording gear and instruments there, and recorded. Again, in the footage available, you see a well-done mixing area and a separate isolated area for vocals and amps, etc.

Last you have Aerosmith - their last album was recorded in their lead guitarist, Joe Perry's "basement". I put it in quotes because the entire basement is essentially a professionally designed studio.

So, I don't want to hear about all these artists who plopped down in their closets and recorded so-called "professional" albums. Sure, it can be done with minimal room treatment and middle-of-the-road equipment. But in that case, you are going to need a LOT of recording knowledge and experience to get such an expert sound.

For the likes of Petty, Dylan & company on the Wilburys albums, sitting in an open room is fine, but they were also playing high-quality, well-kept vintage/new acoustics, and recording through Neumann mics (among others). I would imagine the rest of the recording chain is about as high-quality. They were also going for that "sittin arounf playing" kind of sound, which you'll get recording in an open room like that. If you want any sort of intimate, singular performance, you'll need to treat

[theblackBay]

I'm a very visual person ok so here it is:

Picture a human as a square box of energy

in front of him are options in life:

i will narrow these to Audio art and recording:

for arguments and my stories sake lets say he can put 70% into any of them
30% being for eating, working, having sex, taking drugs etc.

he can choose:

1. to learn his favourite songs and play in a band and put 70% of energy into that in the aim of play "live" shows and kicking on.

2. learn chords and theory thus trying his hand at song writing.

3. understand little to no theory but learn frequency and production technology and understand why things occur the way they do.


now notice the first two have our square human in a rather serious disadvantage as far as trying to record an Album or EP at home.

the point is when a square human arrives at a forum how can one know for sure of which category he fits into, thus making an assumptions that he can not achieve the results he wants to obtain is incorrect.

number 1 will have as originals songs A sound that emulates the favourite band that they are used to copying they will need to go to a Studio to produce them (hoping that a good producer will take it in an original direction) and ultimately (were in the past) a recording companies dream, you can't disagree as i have run into person after person with fairly large success at one time with a "hard luck story" about a recording company i.e they were take to the cleaners.

2. will generally have those nice songs that you hear, they are very structured and perfect they are technically good songs but without the means to produce them they are a bit stuck, generally unless they have some sort of mid life crisis.
they will probably move to a teaching job or sell songs to pop artists.
But then and even then it is again a producer that will take that song into a different direction.

3. They will make some shitty music because they don't know how to play then by co-incidence after co-incidence they will learn to filter mix frequency analyse and master produce and eventually crack the code but when they do, they require no recording company no producer and they have a bunch of original songs.. Now it's all down to the marketing.

ultimately i believe i was force into three by an alien satellite.
becasue of a number of reasons you won't beileve, and because i still can't play but write meaninful audio art the will change peoples lives once they visualise it.

But that’s not to say anyone can't do it it’s just a choice at the start.

Not one of those numbers has any more time needed over the other one in my opinion.
we are all humans and we all have energy.

[pipelineaudio]

Originally Posted by theblackBay

number 1 will have as originals songs A sound that emulates the favourite band that they are used to copying they will need to go to a Studio to produce them (hoping that a good producer will take it in an original direction) and ultimately (were in the past) a recording companies dream, you can't disagree as i have run into person after person with fairly large success at one time with a "hard luck story" about a recording company i.e they were take to the cleaners.

I gotta keep stepping up about this, because things keep getting mixed up that shouldn't be

record company is to studio as a Ballbearing company is to house painter

[johnnypig]

I hate to have my first or near first (i don't know) post being derogatory but...

You're all fuckin nuts.

I mean it in a nice way.

I am or was a professional songwriter and session guitarist. I've been practically living (edit: lived) in a couple different studios, and man, I'd give ANYTHING to have one of those rooms!!!

Now look, I know we can't all have $100k super designed Ausperger rooms, and we make best of what we got, blabla. But don't think to yourself that just cos you got a cool take in a trashy bedroom doesn't mean you wouldn't have given a nut to have recorded it somewhere special.

Touring guys and people with no free time do records in hotels. Like Aerosmith and the Eagles. But they suck! Their records sound like ass.

OK I'm done.

Cool forum anyway. I swear I'm not a dick.

Robo

[cusebassman]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

I gotta keep stepping up about this, because things keep getting mixed up that shouldn't be

record company is to studio as a Ballbearing company is to house painter

Man, I applaud you for being able to understand "number 1". I still purport that this a troll stirring trouble, but why would one go to such trouble? Walters' posts were maybe 5 sentences long.

Even so, as far as I can tell this guy doesn't play an instrument of any kind. As such, how does he know any of the things he mumbles about in poor English? I would suppose he doesn't.

Why i continue on, I don't know (the alien satellite doesn't tell me anything, it just glows happily in the nighttime sky), but if you want to record at home, go ahead. Buy 5 dollar microphones and record in an untreated room. Have you ever used a microphone? If what you create is digital "music art" and you play no instruments, how do you have any experience with this stuff as it is?

Gah! My brain! The satellite has finally made contact, and its shouting "Troll! Troll!"

[eeb]

ok..

this is getting retarded..

first of all what some of you are forgetting is no matter how you record.. analogue or digital.. what plug ins you use what reverbs you use you have to understand one thing.

THESE ARE ONLY TOOLS

analogue recording is not a "way of life"

analogue recording is a tool.. a different way of achieve x result.

just because something is recorded analogue or digital .. doesn't mean it's better or worse.. that is dependant on the engineers abilities..
black bay:
here's a list for you

1.the reason people go to "pro" studios
a) because of the talent of the engineer
b) because they don't know how and don't want to learn (more focus on the music)

2. Recording studios have NOTHING to do with labels. Labels will come to a studio and purchase their services for one of their bands. They will also sometimes hire a producer. This is a completely different sanerio than johnny two tone booking studio time for his band. He'll get to the studio lay down the tracks and all the engineer does is set up the mics.. record.. edit... mix all the technical stuff that johnny two tone doesn't know how to do. (hence what you're paying for)

3. analogue is not nessisarily better than digital.. digital is not nessisarily better than analogue.. these are mediums .. they both have advantages and disadvantages.. the result is 100% dependant on THE ENGINEER

4. johnny pig said it right.. we work within our means.. if we have a studio we work with what we have.. if we have a budjet we work with in that..