Soundcraft Ghost ideal for live use?

[flying4eyes]

Hello guys,
I'm interested of buying a used Soundcraft Ghost 32ch mixer for my homestudio except from the digital 01v that owned,but i would like to know if also is suitable for live use,as a stage(FOH) monitor.
How separate monitor mixes can provide?

[Farview]

It has 8 aux sends, a stereo mix B and a main output.

[flying4eyes]

So,I suppose that i can have 8 separate mixes at time that i can use either for stereo or mono?

[Simman]

While you can use the ghost for a FOH application, I would not recommend it unless it where a permanent installation. The Ghost has some mechanical design issues associated with the console flexing (especially when moved) that causes the individual channel cards to break at the mounting points. This generally happens at the two center most channels strips. I know this because my Ghost had two channel (ch16 & ch17) strips broken during shipment from the factory. This was very concerning to me especially since the board was packed well and on a pallet.

I called Soundcraft tech support and they told me this was a very common (their words) occurrence . The good news is each channel strip in the console is on an individual circuit card that can be easily removed/replaced (much like large frame consoles). Soundcraft sent me 2 replacement cards but, the best thing to come out of this was the tech told me was how to fix the broken cards so I now have 2 spare channel strips.

Given a choice, I would go with another board if I were going to truck the console around nightly. I would definitely go with a Midas Venice for live applications and the board is equally suited for use in a studio.

[Lectric_Lab]

Originally Posted by Simman

While you can use the ghost for a FOH application, I would not recommend it unless it where a permanent installation. The Ghost has some mechanical design issues associated with the console flexing (especially when moved) that causes the individual channel cards to break at the mounting points. This generally happens at the two center most channels strips. I know this because my Ghost had two channel (ch16 & ch17) strips broken during shipment from the factory. This was very concerning to me especially since the board was packed well and on a pallet.

I called Soundcraft tech support and they told me this was a very common (their words) occurrence . The good news is each channel strip in the console is on an individual circuit card that can be easily removed/replaced (much like large frame consoles). Soundcraft sent me 2 replacement cards but, the best thing to come out of this was the tech told me was how to fix the broken cards so I now have 2 spare channel strips.

Given a choice, I would go with another board if I were going to truck the console around nightly. I would definitely go with a Midas Venice for live applications and the board is equally suited for use in a studio.

I agree with Simman on this, the Ghost is not a road mixer, I have a 24LE and I love it alot for in the studio use, I'd never road it or want to carry the 110lbs around all the time...go Midas for FOH or even A&H would be better for moving around alot, but...you won't get the Ghost.

btw: I got my Ghost shipped directly from UK, it arrived in-tact, have had it for 5 years no problems, and it is a great recording console.

[flying4eyes]

Certainly i don't want to use it as a rental FOH mixer.
I only want to use it about 3-4 times a year to cover some topic bands.
As i need to rent equipment to cover these nights and charged me a lot,i decided as already have some basic equipment for my studio(drums,bass amp,quitar amp,few mics,equalizers,compressors,Yamaha 01V and Behringer MX3242) to set them,and also buy a Ghost that i see that many of them use to rent me.
After a little search also discovered that Ghost is a very good studio mixer instead and can use it in my studio also.
I need to know if this can cover something like 7 instruments(drums,quitar,bass,violin,keys,bongos,mpouzouki(greek instrument if you don't know) and 4 singers(maybe all singers can use the same monitor mix).
That's all.

[xstatic]

The Ghost is a good solid studio mixer. There are certainly longevity issues involved with them like mentioned above. This is common knowledge and probably why you do not see very many Ghosts out on the road or rentals. The ghost has some odd layout features for mixing live, but that is not a real issue if you are used to them. I would not want to handicap a guest engineer that is not familiar with the layout though.

As far as the Midas Venice goes, the Venice is not laid out well for studio use and lacks a lot of the Ghosts featres. All of these things can be worked around to a certain degree though. What you do get with the Midas though is raw sond quality. In my opinion the Ghost can't even touch even the Venice as far as pure quality of preamps and EQ, but once again, the Ghost offers a lot more in the feature department, especially when dealing with studio routing and use.

[flying4eyes]

Originally Posted by xstatic

The Ghost is a good solid studio mixer. There are certainly longevity issues involved with them like mentioned above. This is common knowledge and probably why you do not see very many Ghosts out on the road or rentals. The ghost has some odd layout features for mixing live, but that is not a real issue if you are used to them. I would not want to handicap a guest engineer that is not familiar with the layout though.

As far as the Midas Venice goes, the Venice is not laid out well for studio use and lacks a lot of the Ghosts featres. All of these things can be worked around to a certain degree though. What you do get with the Midas though is raw sond quality. In my opinion the Ghost can't even touch even the Venice as far as pure quality of preamps and EQ, but once again, the Ghost offers a lot more in the feature department, especially when dealing with studio routing and use.

If i understand right of the specs of Venice i see that has 6 aux so can provide 6 separate mixes,right?Instead of 10 aux of Ghost as manual says.
Also the price is almost half for the used Ghost around 2000$ for the full 32ch model,instead of Venice that starts 3500$ for a used model.

[TexRoadkill]

I'd have to go with everyone else in saying it's not an ideal live board. I like mine but the Aux layout is a bit restrictive. You only have a couple pre fader sends and some of the aux knobs are switchable between different sends so you can't use all 8 auxes on the same channel at the same time. The last few auxes are also stereo which screws things up in my opinion. You would have to sum the output if you want to use it as a regular mono send.

I would go with a board that has more pre fader sends and a dedicated knob for each channel. A Yamaha or A&H live board would probably serve you better and be a little more intuitive for guest engineers.

[flying4eyes]

Originally Posted by TexRoadkill

I'd have to go with everyone else in saying it's not an ideal live board. I like mine but the Aux layout is a bit restrictive. You only have a couple pre fader sends and some of the aux knobs are switchable between different sends so you can't use all 8 auxes on the same channel at the same time. The last few auxes are also stereo which screws things up in my opinion. You would have to sum the output if you want to use it as a regular mono send.

I would go with a board that has more pre fader sends and a dedicated knob for each channel. A Yamaha or A&H live board would probably serve you better and be a little more intuitive for guest engineers.

Ok,But can you tell me what is the usefull number of aux that is useful for at the same time for mixes?

[boingoman]

If you only need 12 or so channels, why not keep the behri mx for the live stuff and get the ghost for your studio? It would end up being cheaper than buying a case for your ghost to haul it out a few times a year.

[flying4eyes]

Originally Posted by boingoman

If you only need 12 or so channels, why not keep the behri mx for the live stuff and get the ghost for your studio? It would end up being cheaper than buying a case for your ghost to haul it out a few times a year.

Cause i need the option to have 7-8 separate monitor mixes that Behr can't provide as i know.

[cavedog101]

According to the book....I have one, it came with my Ghost, live, you would be able to provide up to "four separate mixes if using MixB as a prefade stereo buss."

So....Aux 1 and 2 are switchable to prefader, aux 3and 4 share a common out with 5 and 6 and are post fader...Aux 7 is a stereo post fader send and Aux8 is a stereo send that appears only in the MixB path. Post fader monitor mixing is tricky at best.

In a real live board, you will have these aux's as a matrix and most of the time they will all be switchable pre/post fader. This is how you will get these monitor mixes you seem to need.

The Ghost will allow you to do groups off of the sub-masters, but in a live situation, you'll want the subs to be masters to the Mains of groups of similar instruments....ie: a left/right of the vocals, a left/right of the guitars etc....

BTW....2 grand will get you a used Yamaha PM series which will have all you want for live as well as some of the best sounding preamps in the world bar none. They weigh a ton and a half .

[Farview]

Originally Posted by cavedog101

According to the book....I have one, it came with my Ghost, live, you would be able to provide up to "four separate mixes if using MixB as a prefade stereo buss."

So....Aux 1 and 2 are switchable to prefader, aux 3and 4 share a common out with 5 and 6 and are post fader...Aux 7 is a stereo post fader send and Aux8 is a stereo send that appears only in the MixB path. Post fader monitor mixing is tricky at best.

In a real live board, you will have these aux's as a matrix and most of the time they will all be switchable pre/post fader. This is how you will get these monitor mixes you seem to need.

The Ghost will allow you to do groups off of the sub-masters, but in a live situation, you'll want the subs to be masters to the Mains of groups of similar instruments....ie: a left/right of the vocals, a left/right of the guitars etc....

BTW....2 grand will get you a used Yamaha PM series which will have all you want for live as well as some of the best sounding preamps in the world bar none. They weigh a ton and a half .

That would assume that he was using the board for FOH and monitors. It sounded to me that he was just using it as a monitor board, that would give him more outputs

[flying4eyes]

Originally Posted by Farview

That would assume that he was using the board for FOH and monitors. It sounded to me that he was just using it as a monitor board, that would give him more outputs

CAn i use Ghost only for monitors and Behr or 01V for FOH mixer you think?

[xstatic]

If you are using the console for only monitor purposes, you should make sure that each of your 7 mixes has a dedicated POST fade aux send. If you are using to do FOH also, you should make sure that your console has 7 dedicated PRE fade aux sends. Typically this would only leave you 1 aux left for FX though if your console is only a standard 8 aux console. For more than 1 FX send you will probably need a 10 aux console. The ghost due to its inline layout will have its aux sends partially routed to the tape returns and will probably create issues with using too many aux sends simultaneously, not to mention the stereo aux knobs and dual auxes. You may need to look for something like a used Allen Heath GL4000, or the newer equivalent which is the GL4400(?).

As far as the yamah PM series goes, I guess opinions really are just that. I have worked with countless PM's over the years. The PM1000 has a nice warm sounding preamp and EQ, but there is not very much top end to it. Many view it as "fat" sounding, but also kind of mucky or dull. The PM2000 did not sound quite as nice but still decent. The PM1800, 3000, 3500, 4000 etc... sound particularly dull. To say that the Yamaha PM series has "some of the best sounding preamps in the world bar none" is certainly a bold statement. Obviously I disagree with that. Personally, I find all of the new PM series stuff from the 1800 forward to pretty bad sounding. The EQ's are stiff and harsh, the preamps are noisy as hell and until you get to the more expensive ones ($20k and up) you will not really get all of the featres that you need for the live setup that you are explaining. The Midas Venice will not meet your needs either, but once again, the sound qulity is there. In my opinion the sound quality of the Venice is far nicer than even the PM4000 which costs 10 times more, but does offer many more features.

[TexRoadkill]

Originally Posted by flying4eyes

Cause i need the option to have 7-8 separate monitor mixes that Behr can't provide as i know.

That's enough monitor sends for a stadium gig. Are you sure you need that many? I've rarely seen a live system use more then 4 channels of monitors. The power amps alone would be pretty damn expensive in an 8 channel system.

[xstatic]

I frequently do shows with more monitor mixes than 4. It is not that uncommon at all in the pro audio industry. IN the bar band and small club world however 4 mixes is certainly fairly standard.

[Ford Van]

Originally Posted by TexRoadkill

I'd have to go with everyone else in saying it's not an ideal live board. I like mine but the Aux layout is a bit restrictive. You only have a couple pre fader sends and some of the aux knobs are switchable between different sends so you can't use all 8 auxes on the same channel at the same time. The last few auxes are also stereo which screws things up in my opinion. You would have to sum the output if you want to use it as a regular mono send.

I would go with a board that has more pre fader sends and a dedicated knob for each channel. A Yamaha or A&H live board would probably serve you better and be a little more intuitive for guest engineers.

Bingo!!! But when I have used my old Ghost for live applications, it was STUNNING sounding!

[jmorris]

Originally Posted by xstatic

If you are using the console for only monitor purposes, you should make sure that each of your 7 mixes has a dedicated POST fade aux send. If you are using to do FOH also, you should make sure that your console has 7 dedicated PRE fade aux sends. Typically this would only leave you 1 aux left for FX though if your console is only a standard 8 aux console. For more than 1 FX send you will probably need a 10 aux console. The ghost due to its inline layout will have its aux sends partially routed to the tape returns and will probably create issues with using too many aux sends simultaneously, not to mention the stereo aux knobs and dual auxes. You may need to look for something like a used Allen Heath GL4000, or the newer equivalent which is the GL4400(?).

As far as the yamah PM series goes, I guess opinions really are just that. I have worked with countless PM's over the years. The PM1000 has a nice warm sounding preamp and EQ, but there is not very much top end to it. Many view it as "fat" sounding, but also kind of mucky or dull. The PM2000 did not sound quite as nice but still decent. The PM1800, 3000, 3500, 4000 etc... sound particularly dull. To say that the Yamaha PM series has "some of the best sounding preamps in the world bar none" is certainly a bold statement. Obviously I disagree with that. Personally, I find all of the new PM series stuff from the 1800 forward to pretty bad sounding. The EQ's are stiff and harsh, the preamps are noisy as hell and until you get to the more expensive ones ($20k and up) you will not really get all of the featres that you need for the live setup that you are explaining. The Midas Venice will not meet your needs either, but once again, the sound qulity is there. In my opinion the sound quality of the Venice is far nicer than even the PM4000 which costs 10 times more, but does offer many more features.

Now here is what is so diifficult about this subjective stuff. I have read a lot recently about peoples thoughts on PM2000 console.People seem to love them. Now I have never even placed a finger on a fader of one but its amazing to see such different views on the same console. Fletcher loves them! I know of one for sale right now and am thinking about it but shit at what they weight I'd hate to get it here, have movers hump it down to my studio only to find out it isnt what I want.It just seems odd there is such a wide range of opinions.

[xstatic]

Certainly opinions do differ. I did not really say anything bad about the PM2000. I do prefer the PM1000 sound, but they are pretty similar. Keep in mind that many people may prefer the PM1000 also, but a PM1000 is much harder to find than a 2000. There are lots of 2000's out there. Also bear in mind that Fletcher has a lot of tools available to do the things he needs when not using the PM2k, or even just to sweeten it. The thing about the old yamaha's is that they are a very distinct sound. About as far form neutral as you can get. Typically this means you will love it or hate it. I would make sure and try one before buying one. I am imagining your setups are very different so it may not be what you need.

[jmorris]

Originally Posted by xstatic

Certainly opinions do differ. I did not really say anything bad about the PM2000. I do prefer the PM1000 sound, but they are pretty similar. Keep in mind that many people may prefer the PM1000 also, but a PM1000 is much harder to find than a 2000. There are lots of 2000's out there. Also bear in mind that Fletcher has a lot of tools available to do the things he needs when not using the PM2k, or even just to sweeten it. The thing about the old yamaha's is that they are a very distinct sound. About as far form neutral as you can get. Typically this means you will love it or hate it. I would make sure and try one before buying one. I am imagining your setups are very different so it may not be what you need.

XSTATIC,
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Its just so hard to make a decision on items like consoles when there are so many different opinions. You'd think something as fundimental as a console there would be pretty much across the board yes or no about them.Dont get me wrong Xstatic, your not the only one that finds them so,so. But then again, many people love them. Fletcher wants 8-10 grand for one of his, but it has mods/upgrages of sorts. Average price I see is 1000-3000k.How are the mic pre's? I mean REALLY.

[jmorris]

Originally Posted by xstatic

Certainly opinions do differ. I did not really say anything bad about the PM2000. I do prefer the PM1000 sound, but they are pretty similar. Keep in mind that many people may prefer the PM1000 also, but a PM1000 is much harder to find than a 2000. There are lots of 2000's out there. Also bear in mind that Fletcher has a lot of tools available to do the things he needs when not using the PM2k, or even just to sweeten it. The thing about the old yamaha's is that they are a very distinct sound. About as far form neutral as you can get. Typically this means you will love it or hate it. I would make sure and try one before buying one. I am imagining your setups are very different so it may not be what you need.

XSTATIC,
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Its just so hard to make a decision on items like consoles when there are so many different opinions. You'd think something as fundimental as a console there would be pretty much across the board yes or no about them.Dont get me wrong Xstatic, your not the only one that finds them so,so. But then again, many people love them. Fletcher wants 8-10 grand for one of his, but it has mods/upgrages of sorts. Average price I see is 1000-3000k.How are the mic pre's? I mean REALLY.

[xstatic]

8 to 10k better have some very serious mods. I have seen 24 channel versions sell for well under $1000 before. I do like the preamps in them, but they are not what I would want my system based around. Some people refer to them as the japanese Neve. Personally, I don't feel the whole Neve vibe in them, but they do have a good character to them that is pretty distinct. I have always found them to have a really nice low/mid to them. Very solid sound. What I miss is some of the high freuqency extension that they don't seem to have. The EQ is decent, but the feature set runs pretty short on a PM2000.

[jmorris]

Originally Posted by xstatic

8 to 10k better have some very serious mods. I have seen 24 channel versions sell for well under $1000 before. I do like the preamps in them, but they are not what I would want my system based around. Some people refer to them as the japanese Neve. Personally, I don't feel the whole Neve vibe in them, but they do have a good character to them that is pretty distinct. I have always found them to have a really nice low/mid to them. Very solid sound. What I miss is some of the high freuqency extension that they don't seem to have. The EQ is decent, but the feature set runs pretty short on a PM2000.

Interesting! All I want a console like the pm2000 is to run back monitors mixes to studio. Second to use the preamps on occasion as I have a good amount of nice outboard racked preamps. Third, if the eq is cool ,maybe use it for some tracking and/or mixing out of the box. I have a line on one for 2500 bucks,said to be mint in a full road case that tilts the console vertical for use,really slick.The price seems a bit high but the case is Im sure half the price.