Live mixing

[slidey]

it's an artform in itself, to be able to produce a sound as instantly as possible. I like it myself, keeps me on my toes & tests my abilities to successfully use compression. It's good fun

anyway I'm aware from seeing other people mix (both good & bad) that everybody has their own take on how to do things & I'm just curious to know what other live producers get up to. I always ask if the artist is happy with FX being used, reverb, delay etc etc & usually the answer is yes & sometimes that can be fun. Hard to draw the line sometimes regarding overdoing things

all good experience

boing out

Slide monger

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I'm not sure just what you're asking, slidey, but IMHO, it's all in the sound czech. From there it's a matter of riding the faders to adjust for differences in performance intensity when the real set begins.

G.

[slidey]

I'm not really asking anything as such

I was recently involved in the planning, building & testing of a 10k PA system & there's a lot involved, we ended up running a 2 way system rather than a 3 way crossed system. The 2 way has a mono summed sub bass from 120hz down, the lows (as labeled on the X-over) are going from 120hz-600 & it's then crossed into the top cabs

over the years I've picked up quite a lot of tips & usefull info from discussing & talking over all things sonic with other live sound men & indeed watching them mix as a fly on the wall

some of the festival gigs I've played at have had mind blowing PA systems & on having a look at the backstage racks I find my head slowly starting to melt. When the onstage monitor mixer is bigger than my usual front of house

the next big PA production I'm involved in I'm going to run a 20 channel monitor mix back to the stage........could be fun

[boingoman]

Originally Posted by slidey

I always ask if the artist is happy with FX being used, reverb, delay etc etc & usually the answer is yes & sometimes that can be fun.

As I see it the technical aspects of the job have to be second nature, letting you concentrate on customer service stuff like this.

Originally Posted by slidey

I'm not really asking anything as such

I was recently involved in the planning, building & testing of a 10k PA system & there's a lot involved, we ended up running a 2 way system rather than a 3 way crossed system. The 2 way has a mono summed sub bass from 120hz down, the lows (as labeled on the X-over) are going from 120hz-600 & it's then crossed into the top cabs

Are you sure you have the details of this system correct?

[Lt. Bob]

Originally Posted by boingoman

Are you sure you have the details of this system correct?

yeah , that doesn't sound quite right if it's 2-way and the subs are covering 120hz down .... what exactly is covering between 120 and 600?

[boingoman]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

I'm not sure just what you're asking, slidey, but IMHO, it's all in the sound czech. From there it's a matter of riding the faders to adjust for differences in performance intensity when the real set begins.

G.

Yeah, just like mixing in the studio. Set your gains and move the faders, and the album is pretty much done.

[slidey]

Originally Posted by Lt. Bob

yeah , that doesn't sound quite right if it's 2-way and the subs are covering 120hz down .... what exactly is covering between 120 and 600?

OK I just checked the crossover

stereo 2 way by Rane.....

standard stuff like your inputs, Hi/Lo outs left & right & a mono sub bass output

So from what I can see on the unit the crossover point between hi & Lo is 5-600 & the mono sub level is from 120hz down

the crossover point was set there for the last job because it sounded right. it can cross from 100hz-3k but if the mono sub level is used anything under 150hz isn't even noticed

[boingoman]

It seems to me like you are running a triamped system using a 2-way corssover, not a two-way system. Just terminology. And I'm not sure what boxes you are using, but those xover points seem a little odd.

If I read it right, you are going

subs......120hz down
midbass...120-600hz
tops.........600hz up and I assume the tops have their own passive xovers.

If it sounds good, whatever, you are the person there listening, but to me it seems like you would be taking lots of stuff out of your mid/high boxes and dumping them into your midbass cabs, while taking those critical freqs out of the mid/high boxes, which are designed to reproduce them. If the mid/high packs are truly bad, a midbass box might sound better. But in my experience it's hard to find a midbass box that sounds really good up to 600hz. 150-200hz is way more typical. Depending on the boxes, I'd maybe try skipping the midbass cabs and seeing if it sounded better with just the subs and tops run at whatever xover point they like. Especially since with no delay control you are likely getting some really odd stuff happening at that 600hz point. Or get a real 3-way crossover, and go something like

Subs....65hz down
Midbass....65-150hz
mid/high....150 up

or whatever the cabs like.

It just seems to me like you may be compromising system performance with this configuration. But if it sounds good, it sounds good, and you do what you can with what you've got.

As far as the other stuff, there's nothing like having a happy client who tells you they are happy. It definitely can make your day! It's amazing how much better a gig can go when you ask people what they want to hear. Good relations are critical. It doesn't always work out, but at least you can say you tried your best to make everything smooth.

[xstatic]

I enjoy doing live shows a lot. In fact, running a live sound company is half of what I do. Live mixing is definately different. In some ways it is harder, in some ways easier. With live sound you get one shot, thorugh a rig that is usually much more volatile than a studio environment, in a room that changes and is less than optimal, with gear that is usually lesser, and hot monitors that complicate it all further. The upside though is that everyone form musician to audience member has lower expectations than they do on an album and other things to distract them from intensely focusing on the mix.

As far as the PA descriptions, what you are descriobing definately sounds odd... Boingo is right on many points, but the crossover frequencies are a little weird... There are a lot of systems out there that are designed with lows that go way past 150. In fact, most of them are that way when dealing with a 4 way system. My Turbosound floodlights run up to 150 on just the 21 inch subs. EAW 850's (very standard) run well past 150 on the lows as do EV X-arrays, JBL SRX, and most every box out there for that matter.

Have fun with running th larger monitor mixes too. Runing monitors is a great way to learn frequencies and their interaction. Wait until the day though when you are not running just a 20 channel monitor mix, but actually running 20 or more monitor mixes themselves. Thats when things get alittle more stressful

[Luthier]

just wanted to say that I do a lot of recording and live mixing....2 very different things!
I love recording but my favorite is definatley live mixing.....you get no second chances, I love the "moment"...to me, it's all about using your guts, your instincts. There is no time for the kind of endless twiddling and tweaking that you can fall into in a studio situation. Also, in the studio I'm always second guessing what the mix will sound like on my home system or in my car etc.
Live, you don't give a shit what it might sound like anywhere but where you and the audience are! and so you do whatever it takes to make it sound good right? For example, I do some sound design work at a theatre and the PA system has been SIMmed and the master EQs are set and you can never touch them. In a live band mixing situation I'll often grab the mains EQ and adjust it rather than adjusting that particular freq on the channel strip