Waveform volume problem while tracking

[Nico2112]

I'm starting to use CEP for tracking. Before, I used it only for mixing.
I'm using my Tascam 414 as a pre and for monitoring.

I tried tracking some guitars today, and here's what happened:
Whenever I started, the waveform recorded as if I used Fade In (I hope I make sense here). And that happened everytime I stopped to do fills and breaks too. It's really annoying.

If somebody could please get me off the hook here, I would really appreciate it. Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Here's a diagram of my signal chain.

Cheers!

[Nico2112]

Here's a pic of how the waveform looks like

[sikter]

Hello my friend,
I’ve got your e mail.
First of all it seams to my like your Tascam is sending Faded signal which means that CEp has nothing to do with it. Still I am not sure and I’ll check it up.
Second. You are recording MONO which is OK if you are recording only one component of your set. Your MONO file is result of CEP set up on recording track.
If your Tascam is sending stereo signal (when) you record some stereo instrument which also can be your guitar processor then you should set up CEP to Stereo recording.

Back to fading problems!
I don’t see the point CEP would record it that way. Fade In and Fade Out are envelope effects in CEP and they are meant to be done after recording.
Effect send on Tascam as Effects return are used for external FX hardware machines like Delay, Reverb, you name it. I think it works the same way as ordinary Mix board on PA equipment.
It could be problem there. Maybe some adjustments on sending time, delay time or similar.
Check that out and I will check CEP for Fade In while recording.

See you around!
sikter

[superspit]

this is a very odd issue...interested to see where this goes!!
Spit.

[Nico2112]

Thanks Sikter and Sspit,

The pedal board I'm using has 2 outputs L & R, you can either use both, or the L (mono) output. I use the L (mono) output.
Yes, I setup CEP to record in mono, using the line in jack. The line in jack is stereo, if I'm not mistaken and I'm using a mono cable; Could that have something to do with this?

I know the fade in and fade out are effects to be used after tracking, and what I meant is that, the track sound "as if I used Fade In"

You got me right Sikter, it seems like if there is a delay time from when I stroke the first note, and then the signal comes on stronger.

I setup the track for recording in the L channel, maybe if I use the right channel, or set it up to record in stereo, the problem is gone?!

Or maybe if I use the soundcard's mic in, instead of the line in (but this shouldn't be a problem with either of them).

Have to check that up.

I appreciate the time you took to respond my friend

Cheers!

[Nico2112]

Today in my lunch hour I did all the tests pending (keep in mind that I still used the Tascam 414 as my board):

1) I recorded a mono track using a stereo cable into the soundcard's line in.
2) I recorded a mono track using a mono clable into the soundcard's line in.
3) I recorded a mono track using a stereo cable into the soundcard's mic in.
4) I recorded a mono track using a mono cable into the soundcard's mic in.

All these tracks ended up the same, with the signal lacking initial attack.

Then, I decided to ditch the Tascam board, and recorded plugging directly into 1) the soundcard's line in and 2) the soundcard's mic in.

The results when plugging directly into the soundcard were much better than the ones obtained when using the Tascam; but still, the lack of initial attack was still there.

I'm really confused now, , there shouldn't be any problem. I've heard many people record directly into CEP using their stock soundcard, and never heard of this problem. Is there some parameter I should change or check in the settings, so this doesn't happen?

I'm sorry to bother so much, but I'm frustrated right now

Cheers!

[superspit]

Originally Posted by Nico2112

Today in my lunch hour I did all the tests pending (keep in mind that I still used the Tascam 414 as my board):

1) I recorded a mono track using a stereo cable into the soundcard's line in.
2) I recorded a mono track using a mono clable into the soundcard's line in.
3) I recorded a mono track using a stereo cable into the soundcard's mic in.
4) I recorded a mono track using a mono cable into the soundcard's mic in.

All these tracks ended up the same, with the signal lacking initial attack.

Then, I decided to ditch the Tascam board, and recorded plugging directly into 1) the soundcard's line in and 2) the soundcard's mic in.

The results when plugging directly into the soundcard were much better than the ones obtained when using the Tascam; but still, the lack of initial attack was still there.

I'm really confused now, , there shouldn't be any problem. I've heard many people record directly into CEP using their stock soundcard, and never heard of this problem. Is there some parameter I should change or check in the settings, so this doesn't happen?

I'm sorry to bother so much, but I'm frustrated right now

Cheers!

mmmm....ok.....have we yet ascertained what type of card you're using?
It's not the stock one in the PC is it?
It sounds very much like an Sound Card issue,....I'd love to know what type it is! (if it hasn't already been mentioned??)
Anyway, remove the driver on that card, re-boot PC, re-install soundcard's driver, if not done automatically, plug your guitar/mic into the 'MIC' in of the SC (unless you have a pre-amp of sorts, in which case you'll use your 'line-in' (via the Tascam for example) and go from there.
Do check your Windows Mixer to make sure everything is enabled correctly, be it Line-in or Mic-in.
Let us know how u go!
Spit.

[Nico2112]

Thanks for your response Sspit!

Yeah, the card I'm pretending to use is the stock soundcard; It's a C-Media AC97 Audio Device that came standard when I bought the PC.

Tomorrow I'll try uninstalling the driver and rebooting the PC. Let's see how it goes.

Thanks again for your response

Cheers!

[superspit]

Originally Posted by Nico2112

Thanks for your response Sspit!

Yeah, the card I'm pretending to use is the stock soundcard; It's a C-Media AC97 Audio Device that came standard when I bought the PC.

Tomorrow I'll try uninstalling the driver and rebooting the PC. Let's see how it goes.

Thanks again for your response

Cheers!

hehehe.....no worries Nico......I liked how you said "pretending to use"....it made me smile!!!
Yes, certainly do try that......failing that, even an old soundblaster "Live!" would be a better option than your current on-board AC97 system.....still, do try to aim a little higher if you can when it comes to sound cards!!..you'll never regret it!
Cheers,
Spit.

ps....oh!....also, when you re-booted PC minus the driver, and later re-installed the driver, goto CEP settings and make sure that you see the sound card in CEP's settings and make that the number one card to be used!!!

Also, do you have to use the Tascam's 'FX sends'???...is there not a 'stereo main out' of sorts on your Tascam that you could use into the 'Line' in of your soundcard?

[sikter]

Before you have reinstalled your sound card driver do this test:

Connect Tascam output to LINE IN on your PC sound card.
Begin with very low signal so you’ll avoid burning your card.
Use sound cards output for monitoring (if you really need monitoring for this tests sake)
If your waveform is OK that means Tascam sends are guilty.

Anyway, I don’t see the point of doing all this.

Tascam is MUCH, MUCH better recording machine than your “pretending” card.
I think you want to avoid file transfer (after recording to Tascam).
Is it great idea using Tascam as “by pass adaptor” only?
OK maybe as preamp but still……???
Am I missing something here?

[Nico2112]

Originally Posted by superspit

hehehe.....no worries Nico......I liked how you said "pretending to use"....it made me smile!!!
Yes, certainly do try that......failing that, even an old soundblaster "Live!" would be a better option than your current on-board AC97 system.....still, do try to aim a little higher if you can when it comes to sound cards!!..you'll never regret it!
Cheers,
Spit.

ps....oh!....also, when you re-booted PC minus the driver, and later re-installed the driver, goto CEP settings and make sure that you see the sound card in CEP's settings and make that the number one card to be used!!!

Also, do you have to use the Tascam's 'FX sends'???...is there not a 'stereo main out' of sorts on your Tascam that you could use into the 'Line' in of your soundcard?

Thanks mate

Yup, I guess any aftermarket card must be better than the one I have at the moment.
The system rebooted just fine, and I installed again the soundcard driver. CEP recognizes it and all is good....but, still the same results

Here's the thing, I use the Tascam as a monitoring device too; if I use the stereo main out, what I'm monitoring in the stereo inputs will be recorded too, along with the instrument I'm trying to track.

A friend of mine bought a Tascam US122 USB interface, and has had nothing but great results, I may look into one of those.

Thanks for your response

Cheers!

[Nico2112]

Originally Posted by sikter

Before you have reinstalled your sound card driver do this test:

Connect Tascam output to LINE IN on your PC sound card.
Begin with very low signal so you’ll avoid burning your card.
Use sound cards output for monitoring (if you really need monitoring for this tests sake)
If your waveform is OK that means Tascam sends are guilty.

Anyway, I don’t see the point of doing all this.

Tascam is MUCH, MUCH better recording machine than your “pretending” card.
I think you want to avoid file transfer (after recording to Tascam).
Is it great idea using Tascam as “by pass adaptor” only?
OK maybe as preamp but still……???
Am I missing something here?

After the tests results, both units are bad, since I tried using directly the soundcard's line in and mic in. Definately the Tascam's sends are guilty. The results were much better using the soundcard by itself.

You're right. I can't complain about the quality I obtain when tracking into my Tascam DP-01; it's a great little machine, and I'm really happy with it.....but here's what you're missing:

My objective of using CEP for tracking, mainly is for recording guitars and vocals. Here's why: When I record drum tracks, there are only 2 of them, or 4 tops, and my Tascam has an 8 track max capability. It's no pain to transfer the drum tracks into CEP; but when it comes to guitars, I want to be able to record all the tracks I want, without having to transfer every 4 tracks I record. Yes, I want to make it easier and faster, but quality is being sacrificed.

I think Sspit is right on the money, I definately NEED a higher quality soundcard.

Thanks my friend

Cheers!

[tptman]

After seeing the waveform, my first thought was that one of your devices is doing an automatic gain control, but I don't know the Tascam 414, so can't say if that's it for sure. I highly doubt the AC97 sound card is doing that (at least on purpose).