How was this vocal recorded - Processed??

[WERNER 1]

I know you guys get this sort of stuff all the time and are probably getting sick of it,....BUT,.. I don't know where to turn on this subject...

Here's the subject matter in question: (I just posted a small section of the intro..) http://www.soundclick.com/bands/song...songID=5666572

When I listen to this song and many like it, I can't help wonder what they are doing to it to give it that rich resonate sound with lot's of breath, warmth, clarity, and "perfectness" .....grant it, this guy could sing "Mary had a little lamb" and make it sound killer, but there's still something there that isn't a part of the natural recording process (mic, pre, room ...??) or at least it doesn't sound like it to me (Which isn't really saying anything )

I guess I'm hoping that some of the heavy hitters on here might be able to recognize something about this and point me in a general direction to chase it

Thanks in advance,
Rick

For my vocals I'm using a couple of different pre's as well as a few different LDC's (VTB-1's and DMP-3's as well as SP B1, B3, and C1) ....I know that those are mostly what would be considered low level items in the vast spectrum of things, but that's all I can afford at the moment ...

[Change of POETS]

That would be Mac Powell, and if you ever meet him you'll know, his voice is naturally very warm and "airy". He's a great guy, and a fabulous singer, one of my favorite song writers in fact.

Anyway, I can't tell you exactly what was used or how, but I do recall reading an article a couple of years back about their recording process for a certain album which the title slips my feeble mind at the moment. If I remember correctly, an AKG C12 was mentioned, along with a Nuemann u47. A Neve 9098 and an Avalon 737sp if I remember correctly... The 9098 for compression that is...

Other than that... I can't remember anything. Sorry.

[Johnny B]

Listening to your excerpt, I hear very noticeable compression. Proximity to the mic is also a factor in getting an up-front, in-your-face kind of intimacy.

[CIRO]

Werner, I was listening your mp3.

Serious, great tones, congrats.

*I played with this Carvin Nomad in a club years ago (are the one with the EL84´s)? in a stereo confuguration with my The Twin (but much better, very "punchy" amp...)


Ciro
www.soundclick.com/openstation

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by WERNER 1

When I listen to this song and many like it, I can't help wonder what they are doing to it to give it that rich resonate sound with lot's of breath, warmth, clarity, and "perfectness" ...

It's a pretty well-tracked vocal. I'm not jizzin' in my jeans over it, but it's pretty good. It's just a good voice / microphone match ... plus the guy has a really natural resonance / raspiness to his voice that the mic seems to flatter, along with some EQ in the upper registers.

Other than that, I can definitely hear a lot of compression. And it sounds like pretty good compression -- read "not" Alesis 3630, Behringer, etc. The voice sounds quite well-sculpted, dynamically, and there is some flattery color / texture that the compression is lending the track. It's not a preset or an "auto" setting. Someone gave some thought to the attack/release and ratio settings, and got it to where their desired effect was achieved within the context of the voice and the rest of the mix.

.

[WERNER 1]

Thanks for the replies guys!! ....I've been real busy with work lately and haven't had much time for posting

I 've listened to that track and several others from that artist as well as some others and hope to some day be able to produce vocal tracks of that caliber .......all though like they say "It's hard to polish a turd" ...

I guess I really need to dive into studying compression...I've got lots of plugins' such as Waves and SSL stuff....but typically I'll use some of the presets as the understanding of Compression ranked right up there with my understanding of Midi (Give me a break,....I'm a guitarist! )

I think I've found a good match for my voice in the "Mic" department ...a Studio Projects B1 no less ....just seems to "fit"..

Maybe I'll make a small sample track and see what you all think.(???)

Thanks again!!

Rick

[MessianicDreams]

Originally Posted by Change of POETS

A Neve 9098 and an Avalon 737sp if I remember correctly... The 9098 for compression that is...

Actually the 9098 is a dual mic preamp

[NL5]

That's a pretty straight forward vocal. As previously mentioned, it's pretty heavily compressed. As well as tracked pretty well. I also hear some eventide harmonizing as well as some Lex reverb on there if I'm not mistaken.

[WERNER 1]

Are you hearing the harmonizing and verb on the intro part??? ...or after the song gets going? ... I can't seem to pick up anything on the intro....but I may not have the best ears either

I've been reading up on compression as it's one of the things that I'm most unfamiliar with, and when you all say "Heavily Compressed",..which factors of the compressor determine this ( threshold, rate,..attack,..release...??...) I guess I understand what each of these does in the compression process, but how to set one up to acheive a desired effect is something I know nothing about ....anyone care to flame me a bit as well as edjucate me ....be gental...please

Thanks,
Rick

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by WERNER 1

when you all say "Heavily Compressed",..which factors of the compressor determine this ( threshold, rate,..attack,..release...??...)

It can be all of the above, to a certain extent ... but mostly it would mean the threshold and ratio are set to where it compresses early, often and in high amounts.

I guess I understand what each of these does in the compression process, but how to set one up to acheive a desired effect is something I know nothing about ....

It depends on what your "desired effect" is. In the example posted, it sounded like the aim was not just to control dynamics and place the vocal up front ... but also to a large degree the idea was to add a certain amount of coloration that that particular compressor imparts when worked heavily.

Generally speaking, when people speak of stuff that is "heavily" compressed, it usually means a slower attack time, shorter release, higher ratio and harder knee. These particular combinations generally produce a more noticeable effect ... i.e. you can "hear" the compression working.

Sometimes, the idea is the exact opposite, and you're trying to make the compression as inconspicuous (transparent, less noticeable) as possible. In those cases, very generally speaking, you're talking about a higher threshold (so it compresses less often) ... using a faster attack (so it allows less of the initial transient through) ... a lower ratio (so it attenuates the volume less upon cross of threshold) ... and a more gradual release time (so it's return to normal volume is less abrupt) ... with a softer knee (so the initial volume attenuation, upon cross of the threshold, is a little less abrupt).

Again ... if you allow more of the initial transiet through (by using a longer attack), then it changes the signal more .... by allowing greater emphasis, or attack, on the very outer edge or beginning of the word or note. By using a lower threshold, it means you're going to be compressing more often. By using a higher ratio, you're making the compression work harder, so the volume changes are more dramatic and thus can be heard a good deal more. And again, a harder knee and a shorter release means that the volume shifts (either way) are much more abrupt ... so you can really hear the volume changes happening more drastically.

.

[NL5]

Originally Posted by WERNER 1

Are you hearing the harmonizing and verb on the intro part??? ...or after the song gets going? ... I can't seem to pick up anything on the intro....but I may not have the best ears either

They are both pretty heavy all the way through. It's more pronounced in the intro, just because there is less going on in the song.

[WERNER 1]

Thanks agian guys!!! That's some good info for me to chew on a while as well as test out here in my "Studio" ......I see lots of test tracks in my future!!

Man to me that intro seems dry as all get out ....I'm not hearing any verb at all much less any harmonizing.....just a dry single take ....hmm.....

[NL5]

Originally Posted by WERNER 1

Man to me that intro seems dry as all get out ....I'm not hearing any verb at all much less any harmonizing.....just a dry single take ....hmm.....

I'll agree with you on the single take. Or, at least one track assembled from several takes......but dry????!?!????!!??!??

[ecktronic]

Alot of compression. Real nice pre and mic that suits that particular singer.
A bit of reverb.
Maybe the track was duplicated.
So the original vocal track had some light compression on it and the duplicate track had heavy compression on it, and they were mixed together. Then the 2 tracks were bussed to a track with EQ and reverb on it.
Something like that might have been used to create that effect.

But its mostly the pre and mix selection that gives it that sound you are talking about, not any fancy effects or anything.

Eck

[ecktronic]

Did anyone else notice the crackling in this mix? Tut tut.
Sounds like lack of editing at the intro to me. :P
Probably from the distorted guitar that is hiding in the background in the left side in the intro.

There is a subtle delay on the vocals also which will definetly add to the thick sound of the vocal. Listen to the word "father" in the line "Praying to the father" at 13 seconds.
Could be an overdub bu Im sure its a subtle delay that has been automated to come in slightly there.

Just a pity the vocal has soo much compression on it. It does add a nice sound to it but after a few listens my ears really got tired of the amount of compression used.

Eck

[NL5]

Originally Posted by ecktronic

Did anyone else notice the crackling in this mix? Tut tut.
Sounds like lack of editing at the intro to me. :P
Probably from the distorted guitar that is hiding in the background in the left side in the intro.

There is a subtle delay on the vocals also which will definetly add to the thick sound of the vocal. Listen to the word "father" in the line "Praying to the father" at 13 seconds.
Could be an overdub bu Im sure its a subtle delay that has been automated to come in slightly there.

Just a pity the vocal has soo much compression on it. It does add a nice sound to it but after a few listens my ears really got tired of the amount of compression used.

Eck

The crackling is on purpose. Listen to it again, you can hear the needle.......

I don't hear a delay in there, maybe you are hearing the Eventide more pronounced when he hits the "plosives"? There is a fairly good one on "father". (and the eventide is a delay I guess)

[WERNER 1]

Good call on the "Needle"....as I chopped the very intro of the song off to get to the "meat" of my question,...but at the very intro it starts out with that crackly needle sound and continues up to about where the vocals come in.

I really think I need to get my ears cleaned and checked ......I'm "hearing" the compression now which is a good thing.....or more like recognizing it.....but as for the verb I'm just not picking it up ...it must be ever so slight (?) ...maybe of the old addage that "If you can hear it, then it's too much" ??

Thanks,
Rick

[thajeremy]

Im hearing the reverb and compression loud and clear but I also dont hear any delay....

what is eventide reverb?

[NL5]

Here is a rough track (very rough) from a project I am working on. Tell me what you hear on the vocal -

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=8781

It's a far from finished piece, but it is a somewhat similar vocal to your sample.

Originally Posted by thajeremy

what is eventide reverb?

Eventide harmonizer - like the H3000 - you hear it on MANY pop vocals.

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by NL5

The crackling is on purpose. Listen to it again, you can hear the needle.......

I don't hear a delay in there, maybe you are hearing the Eventide more pronounced when he hits the "plosives"? There is a fairly good one on "father". (and the eventide is a delay I guess)

I did think for a second that the crackle was meant to be there, but its not very well executed if its meant to be there IMO.

What is Eventide?
I hear a delay on "father" but it sounds like its only the top end that is delayed, its a real airy sounding delay.

Eck

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by NL5

Here is a rough track (very rough) from a project I am working on. Tell me what you hear on the vocal -

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=8781

It's a far from finished piece, but it is a somewhat similar vocal to your sample.



Eventide harmonizer - like the H3000 - you hear it on MANY pop vocals.

I hear the vocals are too quiet IMO.
I hear room noise (room reverb) which spoils the vocal IMO. Maybe compression brought out the room noise too much?
And I hear a deep raspy low end from the singer.

Eck

[NL5]

Originally Posted by ecktronic

I hear the vocals are too quiet IMO.
I hear room noise (room reverb) which spoils the vocal IMO. Maybe compression brought out the room noise too much?
And I hear a deep raspy low end from the singer.

Eck

Thats how you hear it?

Anybody else wanna venture a guess on the processing? Not really looking for comments on the mix, just curious what people can hear on the vocal.

BTW, its just a tracking mix, so it's far from perfect. The tracking didn't get finished until yesterday.

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by NL5

Thats how you hear it?

Anybody else wanna venture a guess on the processing? Not really looking for comments on the mix, just curious what people can hear on the vocal.

BTW, its just a tracking mix, so it's far from perfect. The tracking didn't get finished until yesterday.

Yeah, thats what stood out to me when I listened to it.
I wasn't thinking of what processing was used, although I'm sure I should have. oops

Id say compression and reverb. Maybe EQ but I can't tell if EQ hsa been used.

Eck

[WERNER 1]

I'll get a chance to listen to it this evening when I get home....I'm going to burn it to a CD along with the little clip that I posted and listen to them on one of my reference CD players through headphones (Senn. HD280's) ....that should provide me with a very good sonic picture of what's going on with those tracks....hopefully

......You ARE going to tell us in the end the exact signal chain and processing of the vocals at some point arent' you ???

Thanks,
Rick

[NL5]

Originally Posted by ecktronic

I hear the vocals are too quiet IMO.
I hear room noise (room reverb) which spoils the vocal IMO. Maybe compression brought out the room noise too much?
And I hear a deep raspy low end from the singer.

Eck

Originally Posted by ecktronic

Yeah, thats what stood out to me when I listened to it.
I wasn't thinking of what processing was used, although I'm sure I should have. oops

Id say compression and reverb. Maybe EQ but I can't tell if EQ hsa been used.

Eck

So your saying it's pretty heavily compressed and it brought out the room noise, and it's got added reverb? Maybe EQ? That's what your hear?

Originally Posted by WERNER 1

......You ARE going to tell us in the end the exact signal chain and processing of the vocals at some point arent' you ???

Yep.