Studio Monitor troubleshooting.....

[bkkornaker]

OK peeps........im no "technical" kinda guy, so i thought i might share a problem here on the BBS im having with my studio monitors, and someone might know the answer to it,........

--Event 20/20BAS (active)------(oldies, but goodies)

Ive noticed one speaker sounds "starved" in the lower mids, low frequencies......while the other sounds "normal/loud/tight/punchy/bassy". The funny thing is.....when both speakers are on, everything sounds OK between the relationship with the two monitors on together. Stereo image is fine, and things panned in the middle of a mix....sound like its coming out in the middle (bass/snare/kick/etc).........nothing sounds "lop-sided" or "out of phase"......

but when i turn off one speaker, and just let the other one play.....thats when i noticed one speaker sounds more "bassy/has lower mids/more punch".

so i checked my cables going from the monitors into my soundcard.....thats not the issue. I even opened up the monitors and looked at the actual connections on the inside (make sure all connection are tight).............thats fine.

----heres the history of these 2 monitors--------

ive bought them from EBAy used and just recieved them a few days ago. And the seller did say the "tweeters" were replaced. So i checked the connections on the tweeters to make sure the guy who changed em out didnt screw up the hot/ground wireing........and that is fine too.

Any ideas on whats wrong with this? or even if there is something wrong, and maybe that these particular speakers are just built that way?..........cause they seem to be fine when they are both "on" and playing together.......although when they both are on at the same time, i can run from one speaker.....and listen, and run to the other speaker....and listen.......i do notice the differnce in sound between the 2.................but it doesnt really effect the overall sound, or stereo imaging.........

any ideas if there is something wrong with them? and if so....what it could be?

[Monkey Allen]

Maybe it's a perception thing. If you say they are fine when on together, then that's ok right? It's not like you're going to listen to one. The other thing is, they are from ebay, so who knows what has come to pass in their colourful history.

[bkkornaker]

i know........i just figured maybe someone had experienced this with thier own monitors before, and if there was in fact a problem with it, or maybe it was they way they were designed?

they seem to work fine together, but when i drag my head from one speaker.....to the other.......i can hear a differnce between the 2 by themselves.

but when i sit 'dead in the middle' of the 2, they interact and sound fine with each other.......

...strange............

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I'd reccommend swapping the two speaker positions - move the left one to the right position and vice versa - and repeat your listening tests.

If the difference moves with the speaker, it's a difference in speaker. if it doesn't, it's either in (from least to most likely, IMHO) your cables, your monitor outs balance, or it's the effect of room acoustics (most likely.)

As far as why your don't hear the imbalance from the listening position, my guess is that it's a combination of room acoustics - you're sitting in a particular bass mode that's a property of your room regardless of your speaker imblalances - and the fact that the directional information which comes from high frequency *is* balanced between your speakers.

G.

[bkkornaker]

thanks glen.......ive tried that, with no change and the problem still remains. I dont belive it to be a "room acoustics" thing, cause i placed my ear right up to the speakers, and the problem lies in the speaker itself........

its just plain strange..........

for a while i was thinking maybe it is just the way the 20/20BAS series was designed......

but i dont know....2 matched speakers should sound equaly the same.......

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by bkkornaker

thanks glen.......ive tried that, with no change and the problem still remains. I dont belive it to be a "room acoustics" thing, cause i placed my ear right up to the speakers, and the problem lies in the speaker itself........

Ummmmm, I don't understand quite what you're saying here. When you swapped speaker locations, did it move with the speaker or didn't it?

If it did, then there is indeed a small difference in speaker output. The question there is if there are any tone or response switches on the Event (perhaps on the back) that may be making the difference?

If it doesn't move with the speaker, then you need to look further upsteam in your signal chain.

If everything seems balanced there, then it's the room. It doesn't matter how close you get to the speaker itself to hear it; the wavelengths of bass frequencies are such that what you are actually listening to far more the room than the speaker itself. Just to illustrate; it's possible to have a room setup where you're placing a woofer in a deep null of the room and you could put your ear right on the speaker, crank up the volume, and never hear much of the bass until you moved well away from the speaker. It can also work the other way; stick the woover in a peak mode area of your room and it will sound super-efficient close up, but if your listening position is in a null mode portion of the room, the bass will sound weak and lacking.

All that really counts here, bk, is to make sure that at your listening position that you're getting a sound that you can translate into a good sounding mix in the real world. A couple of dB difference in bass at the speaker cones themselves because of the properties of your room and layout will be irrelevant if everything at your listening position gives you a proper bass balance as compared to the higher registers.

High frequencies might be a different story, as those are more localized and directional, and a big difference there could translate into an imbalance in your L/R mix (even then you could probably compestate for it, if necessary.) But at bass wavelengths it's a bit of a different story; you're worried more about overall levels there than you are any spacial or directional information.

G.

[Lt. Bob]

ditto with Glen ...... if you switched speakers to the opposite sides did the problem switch sides also?
If it did then it's the speaker. If the problem stayed on the same side, then it's not the speaker .... simple as that.

[bkkornaker]

OMG!!!!!! you guys are awesome!!!!

i physicly switched the speakers locations..........and its my room!!!!! OMG!!!
i have my speaker to the right of me is almost right in the corner of the room, and the speaker to the left of me in the middle of the room. Its always the speaker thats 'in the corner' appears to have more BASS and low mids!!!!

its my room!

holy crap! i never knew a room could make such a sound differnce!!! Jesus! you guys are awesome!

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by bkkornaker

i have my speaker to the right of me is almost right in the corner of the room, and the speaker to the left of me in the middle of the room. Its always the speaker thats 'in the corner' appears to have more BASS and low mids!!!!

Oh, yeah, had you mentioned the corner bit a couple of posts ago, any one of a dozen regulars here could have nailed that for you with one ear tied behind their backs . Sticking a speaker in a corner is a classic situation for messing up the bass.

If you can, try setting up your speakers symmetrically along a wall and out of the corners (meaning an equal distance away from their respective closer corners.) And, if possible, pull the speakers a bit away from the wall, but not so far whereas your ears' listening position winds up in the middle of the room. Not everybody with a home situation can meet all those parameters, but the closer you can get to that, they happier you'll likely be.

Stick around here for a while bk, stuff like that will become second nature for you in no time; there's plenty of good folk here just chick full of those basics (and, granted, a few who are simply full of it; but hey, what can ya do? )

G.

[PhiloBeddoe]

Originally Posted by bkkornaker

OMG!!!!!! you guys are awesome!!!!

i physicly switched the speakers locations..........and its my room!!!!! OMG!!!
i have my speaker to the right of me is almost right in the corner of the room, and the speaker to the left of me in the middle of the room. Its always the speaker thats 'in the corner' appears to have more BASS and low mids!!!!

its my room!

holy crap! i never knew a room could make such a sound differnce!!! Jesus! you guys are awesome!

I really wish people would try stuff like this more often instead of buying new gear every time something doesn't sound right. I know it can seem like the guys peddling acoustic treatment wares have only an interest in sales, but this stuff really is hugely important.

I'd say get that speaker out of the corner if you can. The sound waves are bouncing around in that corner and messing you up.

Do you have any acoustic treatment? If not, but or make some. It's not hard to make this stuff and the payoff is huge. Lots of info on the studio building forum on this and at www.realtraps.com and www.johnlsayers.com.

[Wish14]

I couldn't tell from the posts above - did you reverse the left and right connections to the monitors as well to make sure it's not a cable/signal issue with the corner side?

If there is a problem with the signal going to the monitor in the corner, you may be falsely assuming that it's the corner that's affecting the sound when it may be the signal. If you flip flop the left and right connections to the monitors, that should rule out a signal issue, if the corner side still sounds like crap.

[bkkornaker]

im just soooooo surprised that my speaker placement had such a dramatic effect on the sound.

i have had some small M-audio BX5's in the same spot, but i never noticed this with these speakers cause they were so small, and didnt have much bass response.....

but when i got the 20/20BAS........WHOA! night and day differnce.

thanks guys, you all rock!

[LIMiT]

now that your speakers are equal distance from the wall on the L and R sides... if you have room to bring them away from the wall behind the speakers - this will also improve the low end. (not as much as bass traps everywhere would, but still an improvement.)

What are your room dimensions?

-LIMiT

[bkkornaker]

hmmmm....im not at home right now, but the room is quite small, about 10x20ft room.

i have an L-shaped desk in the corner of the room.....so i think what ill have to do is place each speaker at the end of each side of the L-shaped desk, so both speakers will approx be in the middle location of the walls, away from corners......and they will be about 5in away from the wall themselves, on small 4in stands, so they are not directly laying on the desk itself.

you guys have any suggestions? or will this suffice?

[LIMiT]

What I would do,...even though it is an L shaped desk, is move it into the center of the 10 foot wall, keeping your monitors equal distance from the 20 ft walls on either side

(so lets say you're sitting in your mixing position, and your monitors are 4 feet apart from each other...that means they'd both be 3 feet away from the walls to the L & R)

Then I would move the desk away from the 10ft wall until your monitors are 3 ft away from it (so...3ft away from the 10ft wall...and both 3ft away from the 20 ft wall)


These numbers are just fro examples sake...and really depend on how far apart they are from each other when you're sitting in your mixing position...aka...the sweet spot.

I attached a REALLY shitty diagram that'll confuse you more..lol.

Hope it helps a little

[bkkornaker]

ahhhh i see what your sayin..........equal distance from the walls (on the sides, as well as the rear wall)......

ok, then thats what ill do.

.....my wife is gonna walk into the room and be like " WHAT THE FU*K ARE YOU DOING! WHY IS THE DESK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROOM!!!!........"

(oh well, she will get over it)

[LIMiT]

lol..

but NOT in the middle...gotta make that clear...you want it symetrical on 3 sides but not in the middle of the room.

We do with what we got.

Soon you'll want to buy (or make) bass traps to but in all 4 corners of your room.

Bass escapes your monitors in 360 degrees and will start to build up in those corners the longer you playback. This bass will reflect back into your ears, masking certain frequencies, ..making you compensate for them while you're mixing.

But for now...improving your mixing position will get you started.

Have fun!

-LIMiT