EQing guitars?

[tocs]

How should i EQ distorted guitars parts?

usually when i record guitar it will sound really muddy in the low end and i have to find what frequency it is and take a few dB off.

if i've got two guitar tracks each one panned hard(well, 70 percent) left and right how should i eq it so that the two guitars aren't fighting against each other?

Do i cut some frequences in one guitar and boost them on the other?

[Simman]

Originally Posted by tocs

How should i EQ distorted guitars parts?

usually when i record guitar it will sound really muddy in the low end and i have to find what frequency it is and take a few dB off.

if i've got two guitar tracks each one panned hard(well, 70 percent) left and right how should i eq it so that the two guitars aren't fighting against each other?

Do i cut some frequences in one guitar and boost them on the other?

Before reaching for the EQ knobs, i'd sugget moving the mic. Adjusting Mic position will more than likely correct the problem. If not, change to a differnt mic but, the last thing I do is tweak the EQ first. Get the sound you want before recoding it and your mixing sessions will go much smother.

Some more information on how you track would help in providing additional suggestions.

[chessrock]

Move the mic?

That ain't gonna' do shit.

Switching the pickup will have the most noticeable effect, usually.

Followed by fiddling with the tone knobs ... both on the guitar and on the amp.

.

[Simman]

Originally Posted by chessrock

Move the mic?

That ain't gonna' do shit.

Switching the pickup will have the most noticeable effect, usually.

Followed by fiddling with the tone knobs ... both on the guitar and on the amp.

.

So...I have the guitar sounding the way I want it in the room, set up a mic, hit record, and it sounds like crap. So, let's see what too do ....hey I know! Let's switch the pick up. And you know what, you're right it now sounds completely different - just not the way I wanted it to ....

[cello_pudding]

haha...moving the mic doesn't do anything...that's a first


i say search for the tone you're shooting for with the mic position, and get the best you can that way....and THEN EQ.

i've tried doing...meh..whatever...with the mics, and then EQ'ing....and it sounds crappy.

but when you get that tone you're shooting for, maybe start with it solo'd and cut frequencies...then you must listen to it in the mix. cutting the highs can make it sound less harsh, but too much and it doesn't punch through. the bottom end might sound great solo'd, but in the mix it might just muddy up. get a good tone by itself, and then see how it sits in the mix. just my .02.

[NTK88]

Originally Posted by chessrock

Move the mic?

That ain't gonna' do shit.

Switching the pickup will have the most noticeable effect, usually.

Followed by fiddling with the tone knobs ... both on the guitar and on the amp.

.

Actually, it will.

Different placement around the cone greatly changes the tone/features of the recording.

[VSpaceBoy]

I believe he was reffereing more to seperating the tones for stereo guitar. Switching the pickups etc will do that more than moving the pic around.

[chessrock]

99.9% of the best guitar tones you've ever heard in your life

... are a 57 pressed up against the cone.

If somehow, the whole mic positioning thing on a guitar cab just trips you up, then you've got much bigger problems I'm afraid.

.

[NTK88]

#1 thats wrong, and #2 position the mic in different areas of the cone and different distances from the grill generate different tones. If in room you have the sound you want, but when recorded it sounds different, 99.9% of the time you have the mic placed improperly for the sound you want and need to mess around with it.

[THX1136]

I'd have to agree with Simman and NTK. Mic selection and position go a huge way towards capturing the good guitar sound you already have. But that comes first - a crappy sounding guitar is gonna stay sounding crappy regardless of mic choice and position. Closer to the voice coil is usually brighter, farther out to the edge of the cone is usually less so. A dynamic up close, along with a ribbon, blended with a room mic can give you a lot of options, but having the guitar sound right is first and foremost. Just my 2.5 cents.

[NL5]

Originally Posted by NTK88

#1 thats wrong

Based on what?

I am not a big fan of a 57 on anything, but I'm pretty sure that is the #1 method of micing a guitar cab,


Anyway, as far as EQ, let me just say this, get it on tape the way you want it to sound. Period. That goes for everything. If you can do that, mixing is a WHOLE lot easier.

[chessrock]

It's obvious to me that the whole ... sticking a mic on a speaker thing is just a tad too much for some of you geniuses.

I'm sorry if I caused a short-circuit in some of your neural wiring networks. I'll try to make it easier on you next time, and throw in a few M-S and/or quadrafonic techniques using 20 different microphones covering every inch of the fucking speaker.

.

[rayc]

Hmm, 57 that's the problem right there - the answer is 42.

[MessianicDreams]

Originally Posted by chessrock

It's obvious to me that the whole ... sticking a mic on a speaker thing is just a tad too much for some of you geniuses..

perhaps i've misunderstood something here - but you seem to be denying the fact that changing the microphone's position won't affect the sound?


Do you really just throw a mic infront of the cone and leave it at that?

Surely you spend - if even just a little - some time correctly position the mic in front of the speaker?

Obviously, the effect will be minor compared to switching p/u or fiddling with various guitar and amp knobs. Step #1 should always be - get the sound in the room the way you want it, granted. However, step #2 shouldn't just be throw x mic infront of the cab and press record.

I think to try and deny that a proper mic placement is worth spending time over is a bit...foolish?

[Sonixx]

Originally Posted by chessrock

Move the mic?

That ain't gonna' do shit.

Switching the pickup will have the most noticeable effect, usually.

Followed by fiddling with the tone knobs ... both on the guitar and on the amp.

.

uh wow are you really serious or just trolling... mic position is absolutely a key player in capturing guitar tone. just slapping a mic up against a speaker probably won't do it, unless you're lucky.

mic positioning will make or break the tone

[cusebassman]

Originally Posted by chessrock

I'll try to make it easier on you next time, and throw in a few M-S and/or quadrafonic techniques using 20 different microphones covering every inch of the fucking speaker.

You then might want to head over to whatever thread was started about monitoring a surround sound audio mix - we need moooore channels.

Because 2 isn't enough for the crap some of us are recording

[cusebassman]

Originally Posted by tocs

How should i EQ distorted guitars parts?

Don't - as much as chess was saying not to fiddle with the microphone, I think his point in saying to change the settings on your guitar and amp were referring to the fact that it sounds a LOT better when you adjust your setup to suit the recording, verses thinking that the amp sounds good in the room, so it better sound good on tape, and if it doesn't, start using additive and destructive processing on the final track.

Originally Posted by tocs

usually when i record guitar it will sound really muddy in the low end and i have to find what frequency it is and take a few dB off.

If it is really so muddy that turning down the bass on the amp + maybe changing your guitar settings + moving the mic around doesn't help, looks like you'll have to keep performing that EQ alteration. Nothing to be done about it. The overall theme here is "Don't EQ when you can fix the source, and if the source sucks enough that it can't be fixed, THEN go ahead and start making changes post-recording".

Originally Posted by tocs

if i've got two guitar tracks each one panned hard(well, 70 percent) left and right how should i eq it so that the two guitars aren't fighting against each other?

Do i cut some frequences in one guitar and boost them on the other?

Have you actually done this or are you just asking for the sake of asking?

I'd say worry about getting a single, mono recording sounding good before you go trying to "beef things up" by double-tracking what apparently sounds like shit.

Unfortunately, shit times 2 does not equal amazing guitar, it equals even more shit (by a factor of about 2 )

The other point here is that, while moving a mic around on an amp will of course change the tone of the recording, you are making the assumption that it is everything. It is not - the fight here seemed to get out of hand from the get-go, so no one could step back and realize that the sound you are trying to fix is a combination of things - mic placement, and the sound of the rig.

Like I said, if you can't get a decent mono recording with one mic, there's something wrong with the setup. If you don't think your guitar and amp are to blame (most people don't), then try a different mic. Try a different dynamic, or throw a condenser on there.

As for the placement of those mics, the only place I've found that gets an even tone is pointed at the cone, about halfway between the dustcap and the edge of the speaker. Slide in one direction or the other to get a bassier, or thinner tone, respectively. Chess's point (and I am making major assumptions here), is that when you move that mic one inch in one or the other direction, you don't wind up with a monumental change in tone. Its there, but there isn't going to be that one magical place that sounds 100x better than everywhere else on the amp.

Don't bother putting three mics on the damn thing, as you will probably wind up introducing phase issues to the problem (mics at different distances from the amp, even on the same side, can end up cancelling out certain frequencies, and then it gets reaaal confusing). For now, try one mic, try moving it around until it is as close as you think you can get to the tone you hear near the amp. Then, start fiddling with your guitar and amp settings.

[chessrock]

Alright ... I'll admit that mic positioning is, indeed, very crucial to recording electric guitar.

If your mic is currently pointed at the floor then by all means ... move the mic and point it at the speaker. And you will hear a world of difference.

Similarly, if the mic is currently pointed at the ceiling, up your nostrils, or at your bass players' foot ... then it is absolutely crucial that you move that mic, by all means. And put it on the speaker.

I apologize for being so closed-minded earlier.

.

[tocs]

i can get a fairly decent sound but it's not great, it doesn't seem to be right there in your face type clarity, it sounds a little muffled, or like it doesn't sound as good as i hear it in the room.

I've been stuck recording a pretty crappy (extremely "digital") sounding amp using one of those small MSH-1 omni mics in my untreated room. I actually found mic placement to work pretty well. I ended up having to point it literally about 45 degrees facing the edge of the amp at about 10" away. Sounded a little "roomy" but if I had the mic pointed directly at the speaker there was this harshness to the sound that just couldn't be EQ'd.

So I think mic placement is pretty important, and can help a lot. Changing pickups/guitars/amps would make a much more noticeable difference. EQ is a last resort, and not something I'd recommend on trying to "fix" the tone, instead of "trying to get it to sit with the other instruments in the mix".

[Hi_Flyer]

Originally Posted by tocs

if i've got two guitar tracks each one panned hard(well, 70 percent) left and right how should i eq it so that the two guitars aren't fighting against each other?

Do i cut some frequences in one guitar and boost them on the other?

is it just a doubled rhythm line or something? or is it two different parts that are supposed to complement each other, like a rhythm and a lead?

if its just a doubled rhythm, then I wouldn't worry about using EQ to seperate the guitars, rather, let them sort of blend together as one. Thats kind of the point of doubled rhythm guitars. In this case you might need to EQ to seperate the guitars (both of them) from other elements of your mix like bass, drums or whatever, but not necessarily seperate them individually from each other...

if its two seperate complementary guitar parts, you might want to try dialing in different tones on the amp, use different pickups, move the mic around the speaker a bit, or even use a different guitar! anything to get a different sound on the two tracks. What most everybody seems to be saying here is to try to capture the right sounds instead of using gobs of digital EQ to fit stuff together.

[random effect]

my bass players foot sounds really good man.

[XLR]

Too vague.

Post a clip of the gtr tracks.

Stereo file of the two gtrs only... panned 100% L and R
30 seconds long
320 kbps mp3
http://www.lightningmp3.com

Then post a 30 second mix of the song they're going in.

[MCI2424]

The first thing to do is get a sound you like out of the amp and guitar. Spend time finding out what will work.
When you are happy with it (amp off the floor) then put a mic (dynamic 57 minimum, 427 great) in front of the speaker. Center it in the middle of the BEST sounding speaker (if you have a 4X cab for instance).

Now, go to the monitors and listen. If you don't like what you hear, move the mic a tad sideway, up or down or in and out. Choose a direction and keep trying.
When you have a decent sound, turn down the gain (distortion) lower than you think you will need.
Finally, record a scratch track with the rest of the band. Analyze the sound in the mix and adjust the distortion gain to get a clean and detailed sound.

This will take a while (like all studios). Most pro studios will take up to an entire day to get the sound right.

Home recording people generally don't take the time to really get a great sound. They tend to throw up a mic and record. Hobbies are usually done with spare time and most seem to not have enough of it these days.

If you really want to make good recordings, spend the time up front to nail the sound and the mix will go so much faster.

BTW: the real sound of an amp can be heard if you use one ear as a "mic" and plug the other ear. Cup one ear and direct the other ear like a mic. Move your ear aroud the cone and put the mic in the location that sounds best. Using both ears in the room does not give a good picture of the amp itself. Too much going on with room reflections and such.

Good Luck!

[Farview]

Originally Posted by Simman

So...I have the guitar sounding the way I want it in the room, set up a mic, hit record, and it sounds like crap. So, let's see what too do ....hey I know! Let's switch the pick up. And you know what, you're right it now sounds completely different - just not the way I wanted it to ....

Having the sound you want in the room is useless. You should be adjusting the tone so it's the sound you want to record. No one listening to the CD will know what it sounded like in the room.