Tele Woes - Light, Muttley, Guys

[TelePaul]

So my Nashville Deluxe Tele hasn't been right from the get go. The action was high from the shop, checked neck relief by capoeing at the third and fifteenth; it was fine, so went about adjusting it at the bridge.....E and A strings are buzz central, so worried it was a high fret. Changed the strings (9s, as the Nashville is shipped with 9s) just to make sure it wasn't a bad case of store-soiled strings, but the buzz persisted.

Took it back to the shop, explained to them about the relief - the guy said that capoeing at the third and fifteenth and splitting the difference was 'just a myth' and the correct way to check relief was to look down the neck.

Got a call a few hours later, saying that my guitar had been restrung with 9s which was contributing to the problem - the guy says Fender ship it with 10s. I checked the Fender site just to make sure I was correct, and yes, Fender do ship the guitars from the factory set up with 9s. I told the guy at the shop who changed his story, he says that the shop swap the strings for 10s because 'Telecasters more used more by rhythm players'.

Anyways, he basically said getting a low action on the nashville neck is nigh impossible with 9s. I'm heading back in tomorrow and saying he either sets it up right with 9s or I get my €870 back.

Your thoughts?

[Jouni]

Go back, see if the guit is OK, if not, take your money back.
Afterwoods, go standing at the front door and piss inside the shop.

Then call Fender and inform them about the happened, then go and by a Gibson. ..at least, you'll feel better.

[apl]

Maybe the nut is not cut properly. The bottom of the string slots should be the same height off the fingerboard as the top of a fret. It's easier from a manufacturing POV to cut them too high from the fingerboard becausing erring the other way can't be fixed without replacing the nut. For that much money, the nut should be right.

[jfrog]

Something is amiss....but you know that. My Nashville Power Tele, a very similar beast, plays beautifully (I've got it strung with 10's). If they can't readily fix the problem, have them exchange the guitar! Maybe it was just a bad day at the factory. It should be a guitar that you're very happy with.

[Big Kenny]

Originally Posted by apl

Maybe the nut is not cut properly. The bottom of the string slots should be the same height off the fingerboard as the top of a fret. It's easier from a manufacturing POV to cut them too high from the fingerboard becausing erring the other way can't be fixed without replacing the nut. For that much money, the nut should be right.

yup and the guy you are talkin' to don't know beans...

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by TelePaul

Took it back to the shop, explained to them about the relief - the guy said that capoeing at the third and fifteenth and splitting the difference was 'just a myth' and the correct way to check relief was to look down the neck.



Anyways, he basically said getting a low action on the nashville neck is nigh impossible with 9s. I'm heading back in tomorrow and saying he either sets it up right with 9s or I get my €870 back.

Your thoughts?

Thats your problem right there. They guy is so full of bullshit I can smell it from here. Tell him to call me if he wants it explaining to him. PM me and I'll give you a contact number.

Trouble is on our side of the Atlantic most dealers are franchised when it comes to selling the big names. They don't want to pay for pre-sale setup and have no clue about how to do it themselves. I do it for some stores and they get a special rate from me for the amount of work they pass my way. Others would rather keep their margins high and use bullshit as an after sales tool.

I assume this is the guitar 30-20 was investigating the other day for you? I assume he had no luck setting it up. It's not going to be a nut problem for the reasons I gave in the earlier thread. The method of checking relief by fretting at the lower and higher frets takes the nut out of the equation. Also from memory it buzzes at the fifth to eight fret, right? Thats almost certainly a relief and fret hight problem. What action is it set at with no buzz?

If the guy in the shop insists that measuring relief in this way is a "myth" I suggest you print the guide on fenders site and take it with you, if they can't get you an action that equates to their recommended tolerance negotiate an exchange or refund.

By the way although fender mention siting down the neck to set neck relief I don't know of a single tech who dosent measure it by the fretting method and that includes the two fender shops I have been lucky enough to visit. It is impossible to set it right by eye alone even with years of experience.

[muttley600]

Sorry meant to post the link to Fenders guide to setting neck relief for dummies where it says

First, check your tuning. Affix a capo at the first fret and depress the sixth string at the last fret. With a feeler gauge, check the gap between the bottom of the string and the top of the 8th fret—see the spec chart below for the proper gap.

.

I use third fret on most fenders because the rod terminates under the third fret on some and the first on others. Depends on model and year but it matters not really.

[TelePaul]

Originally Posted by muttley600

Sorry meant to post the link to Fenders guide to setting neck relief for dummies where it says .

I use third fret on most fenders because the rod terminates under the third fret on some and the first on others. Depends on model and year but it matters not really.

Thanks alot Muttley, yes it's the one 32-20 worked on - I changed the strings to rule them out though I had a feeling it was going to be something more serious. The guys a complete knob. Do you think it should be possible to set it up with 9s? Here's the spec (neck radius etc) from the fender site

http://www.fender.co.uk/products//se...tno=0135300367


Yep, buzzes 5-7 on the E and A. I can't give you an excat height right now, but before 32-20 lowered the action, it was pretty much unplayable for me - I could do nice sldie stuff but that was it, chords past the 7th fret were awakward.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by TelePaul

Thanks alot Muttley, yes it's the one 32-20 worked on - I changed the strings to rule them out though I had a feeling it was going to be something more serious. The guys a complete knob.

That's a helluva thing to call your brother... ;^)

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by TelePaul

Do you htink it should be possible to set it up with 9s? Here's the spec (neck radius etc) from the fender site


http://www.fender.co.uk/products//se...tno=0135300367

Absolutely, as long as nothing is wrong with the materials or workmanship it's a peace of piss for someone who knows

What action does it have now? Top of fret > bottom of string @ 12th fret, top and low E?

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by ggunn

That's a helluva thing to call your brother... ;^)

Priceless, we must all watch our grammar when ggunn is on the prowl

[TelePaul]

Originally Posted by muttley600

Absolutely, as long as nothing is wrong with the materials or workmanship it's a peace of piss for someone who knows

What action does it have now? Top of fret > bottom of string @ 12th fret, top and low E?

Would check but it's in the shop. 32-20 may know, fair play to him he's put alot of effort into it and had to deal with this fucking idiot today - I can't really get into town midweek because of work.

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by TelePaul

Would check but it's in the shop. 32-20 may know, fair play to him he's put alot of effort into it and had to deal with this fucking idiot today - I can't really get into town midweek because of work.

Right I'm with you. Bottom line it's a mid range Tele, you should be able to get an action and sound at least as good as the other one you have Fingerboard radius, material, fret width has little to do with it. String gauge does but 9's are fine

[32-20-Blues]

Originally Posted by muttley600

Absolutely, as long as nothing is wrong with the materials or workmanship it's a peace of piss for someone who knows

What action does it have now? Top of fret > bottom of string @ 12th fret, top and low E?

Muttley, the guitar is in the shop until tomorrow. I've been dealing with the shop on and off all day, too. We only left the guitar with them because they said 'no problem, we'll fix it.' Then, when my brother got home, he gets a phone call telling him that he has made the problem worse by re-stringing with nines, because the guitar ships with tens. I call bullshit, and tell them that the guitar ships with nines. They change their story. Get this, they say they re-string all Fenders with tens, because they sell most Fenders to rhythm guitarists! What the fuck?!?!?!

I couldn't set this thing up myself, despite giving it my best shot. Relief checks out perfectly, and I can only assume that the frets are high. (A straight edge rocks on them, slightly). However, as I have no experience with working on frets, the guitar had to go back to the shop. Then the saga started.

Muttley, thanks for your help. I hope you can understand now why I'm eager to learn as much of this stuff as I can for myself. The shops in Dublin are run by fuckers who wouldn't know their arseholes from a hole in the ground.

Honestly, even with what little stuff I know, I could take this guy's job tomorrow. And that's because I read things carefully, make sure I understand them, and approach guitars carefully. But most importantly, it's because I'd never bullshit a kid who has spend three weeks pay on a guitar that won't play properly.

I'm going into the shop tomorrow with my brother to tear this guy a new one.

Edit: Action now, to low E string at twelfth, was just over 3mm with a shit load of buzz.

[muttley600]

If the neck is straight, or even with a little relief and a straight edge rocks on the frets that is the problem almost without a doubt. If the frets are seated correctly they need stoning to the correct hight and re crowning. From the sound of it these guys don't have the facility or knowledge to do it.

Anyone you can get a considered opinion from near you? A trusted repair guy? A young guy showed me a Zakk Wylde Epi in the workshop today that a nearby shop had ruined by stripping the hex on the truss rod. They claimed it was a common fault on Epi's I sent him home with a signed statement on my letterhead detailing the only way this could have happened and how they were to blame and the cost to put it right. He had a spring in his step because he'd been fighting these guys for weeks. He traveled two hours to see me and two hours back. He rang me this evening to say they had agreed to buy the guitar back from him. Cost to me? zero, likely new customers for setups? minimum one. Don't let them bullshit you.

Tear him one for me

[32-20-Blues]

Originally Posted by muttley600

If the neck is straight, or even with a little relief and a straight edge rocks on the frets that is the problem almost without a doubt. If the frets are seated correctly they need stoning to the correct hight and re crowning. From the sound of it these guys don't have the facility or knowledge to do it.

Anyone you can get a considered opinion from near you? A trusted repair guy? A young guy showed me a Zakk Wylde Epi in the workshop today that a nearby shop had ruined by stripping the hex on the truss rod. They claimed it was a common fault on Epi's I sent him home with a signed statement on my letterhead detailing the only way this could have happened and how they were to blame and the cost to put it right. He had a spring in his step because he'd been fighting these guys for weeks. He traveled two hours to see me and two hours back. He rang me this evening to say they had agreed to buy the guitar back from him. Cost to me? zero, likely new customers for setups? minimum one. Don't let them bullshit you.

Tear him one for me

Yep, the straight edge definitely rocks. Also, you can actually see one fret that hasn't been seated properly. (At the edge of the fingerboard, there is a significant gap between the bottom of the tang and the maple).

I'm not gonna let anyone bullshit me. You would have been proud of me today, man. When he told me he couldn't set up a Tele with 9's, I told him I had two at home that played perfectly with them. He asked me who set them up for me. i told him I did it myself.

Once again, muttley, thanks so much for your guidance.

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by 32-20-Blues

Yep, the straight edge definitely rocks. Also, you can actually see one fret that hasn't been seated properly. (At the edge of the fingerboard, there is a significant gap between the bottom of the tang and the maple).

I'm not gonna let anyone bullshit me. You would have been proud of me today, man. When he told me he couldn't set up a Tele with 9's, I told him I had two at home that played perfectly with them. He asked me who set them up for me. i told him I did it myself.

Once again, muttley, thanks so much for your guidance.

There you go, it ain't rocket science after all. Just needs careful diagnosis and precise work to get it right Suggest you point this out to them.

The "tang" by the way is the bit that's sunk in the board so if there's a gap there the fret is out of the slot I'm sure you new that

[32-20-Blues]

Originally Posted by muttley600

There you go, it ain't rocket science after all. Just needs careful diagnosis and precise work to get it right Suggest you point this out to them.

The "tang" by the way is the bit that's sunk in the board so if there's a gap there the fret is out of the slot I'm sure you new that

The tang is what I'm talking about, I think. On the side of a Fender neck, you can see the part of the fret that has been sunk into the wood. What I'm trying to describe is that the part that is sunk into the wood doesn't go down all the way into the slot. there is a gap at the bottom of the tang. The fret is therefore sitting higher. Does this make sense, or am I confused?

[Zaphod B]

The answer is simple, then - get a big fucking hammer and seat that fret!

OK, maybe a small one would be better.

[muttley600]

Yeh thats right. From your description I assumed you are talking about a gap between the fingerboard and the bottom of the fret where the tang is being exposed. It's actually not uncommon to see a gap between the bottom of the slot and the bottom of the tang even on slots cut by cnc. Fret wire tolerance is not that high!!

As long as the fret sits flat on the fingerboard your normally OK. if you can snag the bottom of the fret with a fingernail or even something thin like a piece of paper you may have problems because there is no way of telling that the fret was seated correctly to start with. Check both sides of the fret because I have seen fret wire that sits flat on one side but high on the other. I send it back. I doubt some of the big guys would even notice some times.

[32-20-Blues]

Originally Posted by muttley600

Yeh thats right. From your description I assumed you are talking about a gap between the fingerboard and the bottom of the fret where the tang is being exposed. It's actually not uncommon to see a gap between the bottom of the slot and the bottom of the tang even on slots cut by cnc. Fret wire tolerance is not that high!!

As long as the fret sits flat on the fingerboard your normally OK. if you can snag the bottom of the fret with a fingernail or even something thin like a piece of paper you may have problems because there is no way of telling that the fret was seated correctly to start with. Check both sides of the fret because I have seen fret wire that sits flat on one side but high on the other. I send it back. I doubt some of the big guys would even notice some times.

Cool, thanks for that. I couldn't check the bottom of the fret against the fingerboard, because there looks like a build-up of finish. The finish definitely laps up against the fret, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, it'll all be sorted tomorrow, one way or the other.

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by 32-20-Blues

Cool, thanks for that. I couldn't check the bottom of the fret against the fingerboard, because there looks like a build-up of finish. The finish definitely laps up against the fret, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, it'll all be sorted tomorrow, one way or the other.

Yep the finish would be on a lacquered neck. The finish can and does come up as well in really bad cases. Don't think thats your problem tho. Likely just needs setting up correctly in the first place which means getting the frets level and crowned with the correct relief. Good Luck and let me know how you get on.

[32-20-Blues]

Rang the shop. The guy who is working on it is 'out' for the day. The other guy says the guitar isn't finished. Told him I'll be in tomorrow one way or the other, and we'll talk then.

[mrface2112]

this sounds like a whole mess of hassle. much more hassle than i'd be dealing with, especially for a new mexican-made guitar. especially with what seems to be a bunch of knucleheads at that shop working on it.

i'd get my money back. that is, assuming that you're not completely and totally in love with this guitar.

if, as you said, it hasn't been right from the start, i'd cut my losses and take my money and business somewhere else.

you don't want a guitar that's been "fixed" by bozos who can't be bothered to lay a straightedge on the frets as part of their initial buzz diagnosis.....do you?


cheers,
wade

[MCI2424]

Originally Posted by TelePaul

So my Nashville Deluxe Tele hasn't been right from the get go. The action was high from the shop, checked neck relief by capoeing at the third and fifteenth; it was fine, so went about adjusting it at the bridge.....E and A strings are buzz central, so worried it was a high fret. Changed the strings (9s, as the Nashville is shipped with 9s) just to make sure it wasn't a bad case of store-soiled strings, but the buzz persisted.

Took it back to the shop, explained to them about the relief - the guy said that capoeing at the third and fifteenth and splitting the difference was 'just a myth' and the correct way to check relief was to look down the neck.

Got a call a few hours later, saying that my guitar had been restrung with 9s which was contributing to the problem - the guy says Fender ship it with 10s. I checked the Fender site just to make sure I was correct, and yes, Fender do ship the guitars from the factory set up with 9s. I told the guy at the shop who changed his story, he says that the shop swap the strings for 10s because 'Telecasters more used more by rhythm players'.

Anyways, he basically said getting a low action on the nashville neck is nigh impossible with 9s. I'm heading back in tomorrow and saying he either sets it up right with 9s or I get my €870 back.

Your thoughts?

All things can check out fine, but if the neck angle is wrong, it will have high action. You have to go down the list in adjusting a guitar. I have fixed some Fender Strats with improper neck angles. When you build enough custom guitars (from parts I mean) and set them up, you learn all the little things that kill you.

Neck angle is the most overlooked adjustment for newbies and the factory does not always get it right.