Just picked up a Tascam ATR-60

[Whoopysnorp]

It's the 1/2" 8-track version. Got it for $100. I'm not positive that it's in fully functional condition, though--the guy who sold it wasn't into recording and didn't know anything about it. I know that all the lights come on and the motors spin, but that's about it. I'm feeling around among my friends to see if I can find a test tone reel to borrow, and I have a friend who's experienced at calibrating tape machines who's willing to come over and help, plus he has some 1/2" tapes we can try to play on it. I also called up Tascam today and ordered a copy of the manual. My dad has a demagnetizer that I need to get from him. Is there anything else I should be aware of before I start messing with this? I am experienced with digital recording, signal paths, gain structure, etc etc, so that's all covered. However, the last analog recording I've done was on my dad's Tascam 22-4 1/4" pro-sumer machine when I was in high school.

[Beck]

Nice score... hope you get it running. If you've used the 22-4, you'll be fine figuring it out.

Watch out for old sticky tape if the tape you have is old, even unused. It will mimic all sorts of mechanical problems that the machine does not really have.

[Whoopysnorp]

Okay, I haven't been able to get my hands on a calibration tape, but I just got done messing with it anyway. Here's what I found:

1) I expected the low speed to be 15 ips and the high speed to be 30 ips, but a friend gave me a 2 track master tape recorded at 30 ips, and I'm unable to reproduce it at the correct speed. Either this is a 7.5/15 ips machine or there is a motor problem.

2) I recorded a sine wave sweep from 20 Hz to 20 kHz on all channels and checked each one individually on both the sync and repro heads. They all sound good except channel 1, which had this kind of rumbly distorted noise in the background of the tone sweep, particularly during the parts of the tone sweep where the frequencies were low. Does anybody know what might cause this? It played back the same way on the sync and repro heads so it's definitely being recorded to the tape. It seemed to diminish as I recorded over that part of the tape more and more. The tape was a never-been-recorded reel of Agfa 468.

[jpmorris]

Looks like the ATR-60 is stock at 7/15. There are 15/30 versions but this was done as an option so it's probably rarer. If it were me I'd stick with 15ips anyway.

As for the problem on channel 1, if it goes away with multiple recordings, my first thought would be to double-check the erase head and make sure it's clean.

[SteveM]

Originally Posted by Whoopysnorp

2) I recorded a sine wave sweep from 20 Hz to 20 kHz on all channels and checked each one individually on both the sync and repro heads. They all sound good except channel 1, which had this kind of rumbly distorted noise in the background of the tone sweep, particularly during the parts of the tone sweep where the frequencies were low. Does anybody know what might cause this? It played back the same way on the sync and repro heads so it's definitely being recorded to the tape. It seemed to diminish as I recorded over that part of the tape more and more. The tape was a never-been-recorded reel of Agfa 468.

I've heard that noise before and I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the bias. Maybe when you recalibrate it it might take care of it.

[Herm]

I am just thinking here and dont know crap but do test tapes go down to 20 Htz? Will these machines handle stuff that low?

[Whoopysnorp]

Originally Posted by jpmorris

Looks like the ATR-60 is stock at 7/15. There are 15/30 versions but this was done as an option so it's probably rarer. If it were me I'd stick with 15ips anyway.

As for the problem on channel 1, if it goes away with multiple recordings, my first thought would be to double-check the erase head and make sure it's clean.

Good, I was hoping that was the case. From what I've read the ATR-60-16 is completely useless at 30 ips (all the low end drops off) so I wouldn't have wanted to use that anyway.

Originally Posted by Herm

I am just thinking here and dont know crap but do test tapes go down to 20 Htz? Will these machines handle stuff that low?

I wasn't only hearing the noise in the very lowest part of the frequency spectrum--it was still there on past 1000 Hz. Anyway, it only happened on the one track. I do need to calibrate for sure. I'm going to try recording some more stuff on that tape and then on a different tape and see if that changes anything. Overall, I'm very pleased with my purchase so far. The machine seems to be in quite good shape.

[Whoopysnorp]

Today I recorded some guitar on it. I did notice a distinct difference between track 1 and the other tracks I tried--whereas on the other tracks the guitar sounded huge and warm, on track 1 it sounded thin and it distorted easily. There was also some background noise. Is this something that can be fixed in calibration? Can you calibrate individual tracks in that way? I'm totally new to all this...

[Muckelroy]

I'm not familiar with the ATR-60, but you should isolate the problem to the electronics, or the headstack.

If at all possible, is there a way to connect the track 1 electronics to a different track on the heads? like track 3 or 4, just for troubleshooting sake?

I dunno if it's a good idea or not, but if it's possible, it's definately a good approach.

Perhaps this can be done by swapping out the cards on track 1 with the cards on a different track. Not sure exactly how it's done on this model though.........

Then again, I wouldn't even take such a step unless you've tried calibrating that track first. Then try doing this if the problem persists.

Food for thought....

[A Reel Person]

the head is spotlessly clean.

On the other hand, this kind of rumble could indicate head wear on the edge track, (1).

Still, head cleaning comes first in troubleshooting like this.

[Whoopysnorp]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

the head is spotlessly clean.

On the other hand, this kind of rumble could indicate head wear on the edge track, (1).

Still, head cleaning comes first in troubleshooting like this.

I've cleaned the heads every time I put tape on it--I don't think that's the issue. When I played back a pre-recorded tape, track 1 sounded fine through both the sync and repro heads. If the sync head will play that track fine, does it make sense that it would record it fine too? I'm not sure. Next step will be to wait for my manual to arrive, get my hands on a calibration tape, and align everything. Oh yeah and I need to spring for a demagnetizer too.

[Whoopysnorp]

Originally Posted by Muckelroy

I'm not familiar with the ATR-60, but you should isolate the problem to the electronics, or the headstack.

If at all possible, is there a way to connect the track 1 electronics to a different track on the heads? like track 3 or 4, just for troubleshooting sake?

I dunno if it's a good idea or not, but if it's possible, it's definately a good approach.

Perhaps this can be done by swapping out the cards on track 1 with the cards on a different track. Not sure exactly how it's done on this model though.........

Then again, I wouldn't even take such a step unless you've tried calibrating that track first. Then try doing this if the problem persists.

Food for thought....

I didn't even know tape machines used cards. I'll look into it.

[cjacek]

Is the agfa 468 tape shedding excessively, especially at the edges?

[Whoopysnorp]

Originally Posted by cjacek

Is the agfa 468 tape shedding excessively, especially at the edges?

No, it doesn't seem to be shedding at all. It must have been well kept. Of the tapes I've put on there, the one that's shedding most is a 2-track master recorded on Ampex 499.

[ausrock]

While I've found the manual for my ATR-60 16 trk to be very comprehensive, it doesn't offer any troubleshooting for the electronics themselves.

Whoopy, any chance of taking some pics of the front and back of the deck. The cards in the 16 trk are easily accessed and swappable and probably are on yours as well.

[Whoopysnorp]

Originally Posted by ausrock

While I've found the manual for my ATR-60 16 trk to be very comprehensive, it doesn't offer any troubleshooting for the electronics themselves.

Whoopy, any chance of taking some pics of the front and back of the deck. The cards in the 16 trk are easily accessed and swappable and probably are on yours as well.

I can see that there is some kind of motherboard the cards are on. Do they just slide out?

[ausrock]

I can't see sufficient detail in the pic but if the main frame has "slides" supporting either end of the pcb's then chances are they have edge connections on the other side which push into sockets on the main pcb.......you may be able to see them if you look between the pcb's.

From my experience, they can be a very tight fit so patience and care is required to pull them free.

In my 16 trk, all this is in the lower section of the machine and the cards are vertical but apart from that difference, I can't imagine that there'd be any reason for Tascam to alter the basic methods used in these machines.

[Whoopysnorp]

There is indeed a 'slide' on either side of the card. So, if I'm understanding you right, I should be able to just carefully pull the cards out, no tools required?

[ausrock]

Provided you have confirmed that the channel cards fit into "sockets" on the main pcb, (the "sockets" are probably similar to the long RAM sockets on a PC motherboard) AND that there's no sign of anything other than the "slide" supports at the card ends holding the cards in place...........then I'd be prepared to firmly but gently attempt to remove a card.

Like I said, they are really a tight fit in the sockets but once you get the feel of them it becomes easier.

ALSO......use a marker to number each card and where it fits.......saves any mix ups if you're trying to chase down a problem .

ChrisO

[Whoopysnorp]

ausrock, thanks for your help--I just successfully swapped cards 1 and 7, and confirmed that the problem is in the electronics and not the head. I'm sure now that it's just a calibration issue.

[ausrock]

Glad to have been some help, please keep us informed as you work through this.

ChrisO

[cjacek]

Whoopy: is there any chance of posting a short soundfile of the offending channel? When you do the test tone, does ch1 stay about the same level as the rest? No dropouts or cutouts?

[Whoopysnorp]

Originally Posted by cjacek

Whoopy: is there any chance of posting a short soundfile of the offending channel? When you do the test tone, does ch1 stay about the same level as the rest? No dropouts or cutouts?

Don't really have the means to digitize it at the moment. The problem is now on channel 7, of course, and signals recorded to it are definitely quieter than on the other channels. If I'm recording over an area of the tape that I've already recorded, I don't really get much in the way of dropouts, but I do start to get them the instant the head hits a section of tape that has not been recorded yet. I'm guessing it's a bias issue. If it persists after I calibrate, then I'll start to worry, but for now I think I'm in good shape.

Speaking of good shape, this machine seems to be in surprisingly good shape. I haven't been able to identify any serious problems. It has some head wear, but the sound is still fine on both the sync and repro heads.

[cjacek]

Is anyone of the opinion that it may be a bad solder joint on that channel card?

[A Reel Person]

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