Drum Mics: How is this for a start?

[Myriad_Rocker]

So I'm moving into the realm of micing up a full drum kit. I'd like to mic up as many things as I can, really. I can turn off mics that I don't need. And I'm going to do some degree of sound replacement from time to time so I'd like to keep lots of mics on the kit so I can have lots of options during mixing.

Here is my current thoughts on what I'm wanting to use. Please let me know if you think this would be a good starting point or not. To date, most of my recording research has been centered around mixing and recording electric guitars. I was using BFD and programming my stuff. But now, I want to get into recording a kit since I want to record some bands.

Kick: AKG D112
Snare: Audix i5
Toms: Audix D2 x2, Audix D4 x2
Hats: Shure SM57
Ride: Shure SM57
Overheads: Rode NT5 Pair (just picked some up for $285, shipped)

Should I mic the top and bottom of the snare? Also, ANY other suggestions are very appreciated!

EDIT: For reference, these are the mics that I currently own...

Rode NTK
Shure SM57 x2
AT AT4033
Shure SM7b
Naiant MSH-1 x2

[Drumz519]

You've got a decent setup there. I ocassionally mic the port on the snare (little hole in the side) or do a top and bottom setup. Obviously, throwing a mic on the snare-side of the the snare drum will pick up more snares. If you can afford the inputs, then do this.

Also, I would suggest building a homemade version of the Yamaha Subkick if you have any 6-10" speakers lying around that you're not using. Just wire the speaker up in reverse, place it about 8-12" from the kick, facing it and run it through a DI with a pad and you're good to go. With this setup, I like to place the D112 inside the kick aimed right at the beater contact point. Be careful with phase between the D112 and the "homekick" though.

Let me know if you have any questions about it.

[Lo-Fi Mike]

Originally Posted by Myriad_Rocker

Hats: Shure SM57

for hats i would choose a condenser over a dynamic.

although i don't have to much experience with using 10 mics for drums.
I started off with 6, then got better mics and ended up using only 4, unless I'm recording in a really nice room, then i will add a large condenser (room mic)as a 5th mic.

by the way the nt5's are definitely worth the money, and for what you paid for them I'm a little more than jealouse

[jamacian]

That's a damn good price for the NT5s and they are great overhead mics for drums. I would suggest e604s for toms, they come in a 3 pack for around $300. I am not a fan of the audix tom mics, they have a bit too much attack for my tastes. Great for metal but not as versatile in my limited experience.

[Myriad_Rocker]

Originally Posted by jamacian

That's a damn good price for the NT5s and they are great overhead mics for drums. I would suggest e604s for toms, they come in a 3 pack for around $300. I am not a fan of the audix tom mics, they have a bit too much attack for my tastes. Great for metal but not as versatile in my limited experience.

I thought the deal on the NT5's was pretty good myself. I just couldn't pass it up. I like your suggestion of the e604's and I might just consider those over the Audix D2/D4 setup. I put those on there because of a thread that I read over at Gear Slutz. I do record hard rock/metal so that's where those came in. However, I'd like for my set to be a bit more versatile. However, on the lower toms...would an e604 be best? Wouldn't I benefit from a different mic? Just guessing.

[jamacian]

Originally Posted by Myriad_Rocker

I thought the deal on the NT5's was pretty good myself. I just couldn't pass it up. I like your suggestion of the e604's and I might just consider those over the Audix D2/D4 setup. I put those on there because of a thread that I read over at Gear Slutz. I do record hard rock/metal so that's where those came in. However, I'd like for my set to be a bit more versatile. However, on the lower toms...would an e604 be best? Wouldn't I benefit from a different mic? Just guessing.

Well, I use a 421 on my 18" floor tom because I only have 3 604s but truth be told, in a mix I can hardly tell the 604 on floor tom from the 421. They're very close.

[Seafroggys]

Hmmm negative on the 57s for hats and ride (do you even need a ride mic?) but the rest is good. I used D2 and D4s on toms at school and they work wonders.

How's the I5 on the snare? I currently have a 57 on the snare, thinking of picking the I5 for a rhythm guitar mic.

[Myriad_Rocker]

Originally Posted by Seafroggys

Hmmm negative on the 57s for hats and ride (do you even need a ride mic?) but the rest is good. I used D2 and D4s on toms at school and they work wonders.

How's the I5 on the snare? I currently have a 57 on the snare, thinking of picking the I5 for a rhythm guitar mic.

I'm micing the ride for replacement reasons. See original post. What do you recommend if not the 57's?

From what I've read about the i5, it's great for a lot of things. It's basically a better 57.

I keep bouncing back and forth on the D2/D4 and the e604. I'm settled on the D112 for kick and the i5 for snare, though. I might actually throw an SM7 or SM57 on the bottom.

[timthetortoise]

I have a set of E604s and have never really been satisfied with the tones they produce. I'd opt for SM57s over the 604s any day.

[jamacian]

Originally Posted by timthetortoise

I have a set of E604s and have never really been satisfied with the tones they produce. I'd opt for SM57s over the 604s any day.

Wow, I find them to be much smoother than 57s on toms. Even for guitar cabs or bass they sound much fuller to me. I gave up my 57 on snare for a GT Convertible. It really cuts through the mix in a noticeable way. I rarely mic my hihat but an e609 picks it up well when I do.

[BushmasterM4]

You may find that between the overheads and bleed through from the other mics that, a mic on the hi-hats is not needed. I dont mic them and they come out fine. You can use the extra 57 for the snare bottom (reverse the phase if needed), Or as a backup when needed. If you dead set on using a mic on the hats, then when mixing the drums, mix it in last. You might see what I am getting at.

[Myriad_Rocker]

Originally Posted by BushmasterM4

You may find that between the overheads and bleed through from the other mics that, a mic on the hi-hats is not needed. I dont mic them and they come out fine. You can use the extra 57 for the snare bottom (reverse the phase if needed), Or as a backup when needed. If you dead set on using a mic on the hats, then when mixing the drums, mix it in last. You might see what I am getting at.

I'm mainly doing it for drum replacement purposes...but I'm also thinking it might come in handy when I bring the overheads way down in the mix during verses and then bring them back up for the chorus or something.

[BurnBarfield]

My current drum mic setup is really pleasing to my ears at the moment, and for the most part they all can serve other purposes very well!

Kick - Audix D6 (especially good for heavier stuff, but also can be used for other stuff if you mess around with placement)
Snare Top - Audix I5
Snare Bottom - either SM57 or MXL990, depending on the snare
Toms are Sennheiser e609s on 12" and smaller and AT Pro25s on anything bigger
Overheads - MXL991s
Hat/Ride - CAD M177/MXL990

I used to mic the hat but always found it just wasn't getting used much, if I mic a cymbal I'd rather do the ride personally. Depending on the style of music a well placed room mic can be really helpful in making the kit sound more full.

Here is a song I just recorded for a band where I used the entire setup above except I didn't use a bottom snare mic or room mic. This mix wasn't the final, but my internet is too slow for me to upload the final mix.

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=8293

[scorpio01169]

if you mic the ride and the hi hat and bring them up in the mix just enough so that you get better pan separation. but definately i would use a pencile condencer on the ride and the hats and not a dynamic.

[Elton Bear]

Yeah, other than your ride & hats, good setup.

Try the SM7 in the kick if you haven't already, you may be surprised!

Also, try i5 on top snare, 57 on bottom, and if you can't afford both mics for inputs or whatever reason, i think go for bottom instead of top every time!

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by Myriad_Rocker

I bring the overheads way down in the mix during verses and then bring them back up for the chorus or something.

Really? I never heard of that. Well, I've heard of riding faders for mix purposes, etc...But never heard of varying the volume of overheads in a song. Isn't that like taking the drums in and out of the room during the song???

[Myriad_Rocker]

Originally Posted by RAMI

Really? I never heard of that. Well, I've heard of riding faders for mix purposes, etc...But never heard of varying the volume of overheads in a song. Isn't that like taking the drums in and out of the room during the song???

I forget where I heard to try that. But after I heard it, I tried it out and it was pretty cool. Granted, I was using BFD so I had direct mics on everything as well. The overheads just came real low in the mix so all I had going was a "close mic" on everything. Make more sense now? Makes the chorus really slam in the few songs I've tried it on.

[giraffe]

57 0n hats and ride is just going to annoy, if you go with them you'll probably have to replace.

[Myriad_Rocker]

Originally Posted by giraffe

57 0n hats and ride is just going to annoy, if you go with them you'll probably have to replace.

Yes...that's the point. Otherwise I'm just going to remove the tracks.

I'm contemplating micing them up with something else, though. Don't know what yet. Preferably something that sounds good but doesn't break the pocket book.

[elementary]

How does your room sound?
Is it carpeted or wooden floor?

If its carpeted, put the drums on a sheet of plywood and put a 57 on the top snare about 1.5-2 inches above the rim pointed at the centre. If you back the mic off a little and have a reflective surface under the drum, the snare wires will reflect back up into the mic and give you a nice snappy sound. I usually find a snare recorded on a carpeted floor to be a little dull. I always find snare the hardest to capture well, so maybe stick another mic on it really close to use as a trigger.

Try the d112 or sm7 on the kick, the audix on the toms, the rodes as overheads and maybe put the NTK about 15 feet out from the kit pointing straight at the snare if you have the room.

Thats what I'd do anyways

[willowhaus]

Why not go with the Naiant MSH-1s for your hat & ride? Your overheads are going to pick up tons of cymbal anyway, so the high-end rolloff probably won't be an issue - it might even be an asset.

Of course, there's also the voice in my head that says if you can't do it with a 57 then you aren't really trying...

[Myriad_Rocker]

Okay, this might be it. Let me know what you guys think.

Kick In - AKG D112
Kick Out - Shure SM7b
Snare Top - Audix i5
Snare Btm - Shure SM57
Tom 8" - Audix D2
Tom 10" - Audix D2
Tom 14" - Audix D4
Tom 16" - Audix D4
Overhead R - Rode NT5
Overhead L - Rode NT5
Room - Rode NTK
Hi-Hats - Audio Technica AT4033
Ride - MXL V67G

That still leaves me with 2 of the Naiant MSH-1's and a Shure SM57 to spare.

[89gtsleeper]

Originally Posted by Myriad_Rocker

Okay, this might be it. Let me know what you guys think.

Kick In - AKG D112
Kick Out - Shure SM7b
Snare Top - Audix i5
Snare Btm - Shure SM57
Tom 8" - Audix D2
Tom 10" - Audix D2
Tom 14" - Audix D4
Tom 16" - Audix D4
Overhead R - Rode NT5
Overhead L - Rode NT5
Room - Rode NTK
Hi-Hats - Audio Technica AT4033
Ride - MXL V67G

That still leaves me with 2 of the Naiant MSH-1's and a Shure SM57 to spare.

Honestly, I think the double mic on the kick is not neccessary... just try one or the other and see which you like best... you also might find that one sounds good on some tracks, and the other better on other tracks, even with the same drumset. I would also not use a mic on the ride, unless it just isn't coming through on the mix. The overheads should pic it up ok as long as your placement/position is correct. For the snare top and bottom you might have to mess with the I5 and 57 a bit... figuring out how it sounds best... which on top and which on bottom, and also phase reverse. The NTK should definitely be way up in the corner of the room to pick up the ambience.

[Myriad_Rocker]

Originally Posted by 89gtsleeper

Honestly, I think the double mic on the kick is not neccessary... just try one or the other and see which you like best... you also might find that one sounds good on some tracks, and the other better on other tracks, even with the same drumset. I would also not use a mic on the ride, unless it just isn't coming through on the mix. The overheads should pic it up ok as long as your placement/position is correct. For the snare top and bottom you might have to mess with the I5 and 57 a bit... figuring out how it sounds best... which on top and which on bottom, and also phase reverse. The NTK should definitely be way up in the corner of the room to pick up the ambience.

Well, I'm leaving my options open on the kick thing. Numerous suggestions here and other forums say that I should put something outside the kick and the SM7 is kind of the best option I have. As for the mic on the ride, I explained that several times in previous posts.

[elementary]

Myriad, that sounds good and should give you plenty of options, the only thing i would add is another 57 on the snare top, placed very close to the head purely as a trigger if you have the option.

I usually find I need to back the snare mic off a good bit to get a great sound out of it and then if you are using that track to trigger hits also, tom and kick bleed may begin to set off the snare trigger. This is only really a problem if you have a lot of dynamic snare work I suppose though.