Do you HAVE to record drums first?

[antispatula]

I'm completely clueless when it comes to recording drums. I know it's kinda an unwritten law to record drums before anything. But is it completely necessary? If I lay down a guitar track while playing along to a click track, then layer everything on after that, THEN have my drummer record drums......could that work?

Thanks!

[true-eurt]

No.......

[eeb]

it could.. as long as your drummer has impecable timing...

see for me drums first is a nessisary.. even a drum track that is perfect in timing (which realistically won't happen with even seasoned players) will have a completely different feel then a click. The drums are the backbone of the song and most of the feel of the song comes from what the drummer lays out. That being said, the main advantage to recording drums first is you give the drummer the opportunity to push and pull the rhythm a little bit.. (which is sometimes very desirable.. if you want perfect timing with no feel to it use a drum machine) then that gives the guitarist more room to get the proper feel of the song.

recording guitars first it will be hard to do this and the recording might come off as being stale and mechanical.

[nddhc]

No as long as the guitar track is aligned well to the click and the drummer can play extremely consistent to the click as well.

However this kind of eliminates most of the groove of a song. Even when recording to a click, if the drums are done first then the drummer has the option to waver a little bit in his playing. Once all the other instruments are tracked and follow the drums I think you get a more natural sound

[MadAudio]

The last two CDs I recorded for Jamie Holiday were done this way. Click first, guide guitar next, then other instruments and drums usually last. I find it easier to get into the groove of a song if I can actually hear it while I'm playing.

[nddhc]

Oops I think eeb beat me to it

[eeb]

Originally Posted by MadAudio

The last two CDs I recorded for Jamie Holiday were done this way. Click first, guide guitar next, then other instruments and drums usually last. I find it easier to get into the groove of a song if I can actually hear it while I'm playing.

yes yes.. nothing wrong with using a ghost track but i've always re-recorded everything after the drums are laid down.. it always turns out better i find..



better yet if you can record as much as you can live.. that's my preferred method

[RAMI]

I record my drums last, after recording everything to a simple drum machine beat. The groove doesn't suffer one bit...Or at least, it doesn't suffer any more than it would if I did the drums first. In fact, like Mad said, I can groove better that way, too.

Do whatever works for you.

[RezN8]

I've done many sessions this way. As long as the rest of the instruments are tight with the click and the drummer listens to what the song needs, it will work out fine.

It often depends on how important drums are to the song.

However, there is a certain kind of magic that happens when you play together. That magic is often lost when tracking drums last. Often the drummer's playing is crucial to "drive" the pulse and feed energy to the song.

Just saying.

[Louddog]

Yes...
That is the way I do it, and I can't say I have perfect timing.
Since I play most of the guitar parts in my recording projects, I do drums
after I get one or two guitars recorded. I have no problem changing timing or
time sig changes with the click, then recording drums over that.

Doug

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by RezN8

However, there is a certain kind of magic that happens when you play together.

Yes...I should have pointed out that I do everything myself. In a band situation, I'm sure I'd probably record as live as possible in most situations.

[RezN8]

Originally Posted by RAMI

Yes...I should have pointed out that I do everything myself. In a band situation, I'm sure I'd probably record as live as possible in most situations.

Funny you should mention that - I was going to say that with somebody like you Rami, who records all the parts himself - it's easier to sound natural when you multitrack b/c you know internally where the pulse is and have an idea of where you want to accent and flow.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by RezN8

Funny you should mention that - I was going to say that with somebody like you Rami, who records all the parts himself - it's easier to sound natural when you multitrack b/c you know internally where the pulse is and have an idea of where you want to accent and flow.

Yeah, true...It also helps that I'm not just doing a drum or bass or guitar track when I'm recording. It's my song, so I kind of "hear" the final product even when I'm laying down the first track. And I'm playing to myself any time I add a track. That's got to count for something.

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by RAMI

Yeah, true...It also helps that I'm not just doing a drum or bass or guitar track when I'm recording. It's my song, so I kind of "hear" the final product even when I'm laying down the first track. And I'm playing to myself any time I add a track. That's got to count for something.

It's the same with me. I'm doing all the parts, and programming my own drum patterns, and I have to have a pretty good idea of the whole song in my head before I can even get started.

So I'll usually just record a very simple percussion pattern as a time reference and start the actual recording with either the bass or a rhythm guitar. The drums will get recorded somewhere in the middle of the process so that the vocals and lead / fill guitar can have a complete core of music around which to work.

[c7sus]

EZ Drummer. Makes a great clicktrack.

Insert tempo changes, whatever. I'm finding I do a lot of subtractive editing to create the fills I want.

[toddyjoe]

I would think the situation might also depend on whether the drums are the driving rhythm instrument in the song. I have written songs where a guitar's strumming rhythm is the timekeeper and main rhythmic point and the drum fills in around it and accents it. In that case, the guitar part had to be recorded first.

[JuliánFernández]

Lots of albums -especially in this days of PT, drum machines and quantized tracks- didn´t use the drum track as the fundation to record everything else on top. Find your way, and hire musicians that know how to play with a click.

[slidey]

I like a song/track whatever to stand up as a solo performance so the most important bit for me is the rhythm instrument, In my rather small amount of time on planet earth I've never heard or seen a drumming singer doing solo work

I've recorded 90% of my stuff with a click & it grooves great, I record a lot of myself like RAMI & record a lot with my father & both my father & I are tempo freaks......

Generally I put drums down last because the bass is in place & you can pick on accents & things in the track that just won't be there if you're playing to a whole piece that is 99% in your head at the start of a project. There might be big harmonies & strings & all sorts of wonderfully musical frilly things involved that one doesn't want batter of the mix with a serious crash or tom hit etc etc

tell you what go here www.sutherlandandson01.bebo.com & check out "I Aint Scared Of No Llama" the drums have been added last by some random dude from Montreal & IMO it grooves like a beast, albeit due a remix & some subtle hammond organ to be added

[mikeh]

As a drummer - I actually prefer to lay the drums down after most of the song is already tracked. That way I can actually shape my parts to fit the song better.

There are so many times I tracked to a scratch guitar or with the bass - and then when I heard the other rhythem parts or the lead vocal, etc (after my parts were tracked) I found myself thinking - if I would have know x was going to play that part my fill would have be different, etc.

Naturally - this is dependent on the other parts being recording to a click and all the recorded parts being relatively tight to the click.

[errr314]

I agree completely with mikeh. Word. I am the drummer and I always have my guitarist do the guitar track first (even just for a scratch track). I can usually learn his groove (if it waivers a tad from the click) and then put down the drums later. That way I can add fills, beats, etc according to the tune more. That way seems to work for us but it may not work for others.

[Elton Bear]

I like to record my drums to a guide guitar & bass if the groove centres around their parts, but my guitarist prefers to record his guide to drums.

Solution - Click track gets running and I groove 4 bars verse, stop, 4 bars chorus, stop, 4 bars bridge or whatever. Then we cut the best bar from each and paste it to the song structure, guitar goes on top of that as do bass & vocals, then the actual drum performance is recorded to those elements, sounds much more groovy to have the drums first!

[jamacian]

Sure, it's very doable. I have done many collaborations and songs myself this way. The most important thing is making sure that all the instruments are tight to the click and eachother and the grove is there for your drummer to follow.

Anyone who says it's not possible (true) has no clue what she is talking about.

[slidey]

Originally Posted by jamacian

Anyone who says it's not possible (true) has no clue what she is talking about.

I don't know for sure, but I think you'll find the post queen of BBS is doin a bit of chain yanking

anyway drums are just a passing fad, it'll never catch on

[jamacian]

Originally Posted by slidey

I don't know for sure, but I think you'll find the post queen of BBS is doin a bit of chain yanking

If by chain yanking you mean post padding I am pretty sure that's all she does.

[wildflower soul]

Ick, everytime I've recorded someone who wants to do drums last I kinda cringe. The drums don't "breathe" in the song usually... I've only heard a few people do it and have it sound alright.