muffling cymbals??

[Jouni]

I posted this at studiobuilding too, but this might get better answers here...

Trouble is- At our rehealsalplace (small wooden room some acoustic treatment. low ceiling) the cymbals overwhelm everything, rest of the band increases volume---> kicks and snare gets drowned. And our overall volume gets too loud...

You know I can't tell the drummer to go easy.

So, besides putting felt or foam-rubber to cymbals, is there someway I can kill the highs???

Like something in the ceiling above the cymbals?..
...won't do much I'd presume...

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by Jouni

I posted this at studiobuilding too, but this might get better answers here...

Trouble is- At our rehealsalplace (small wooden room some acoustic treatment. low ceiling) the cymbals overwhelm everything, rest of the band increases volume---> kicks and snare gets drowned. And our overall volume gets too loud...

You know I can't tell the drummer to go easy.

So, besides putting felt or foam-rubber to cymbals, is there someway I can kill the highs???

Like something in the ceiling above the cymbals?..
...won't do much I'd presume...

Problem is, even if you manage to convince the drummer to muffle his cymbals (which seems questionable considering you can't tell him to go easy), all he'll do is hit them harder. Which means he'll be hitting everything else harder, too. It could make it worse.

It might not be easy, but you have to get him to try and ease off and play with some dynamics.

[Jouni]

I actually wouldn't mind him hitting harder everything else but the cymbals.. I'm the bassist, I NEED the snare and kicks.

But in the small room. standing next to drums... can't hear them, or the guits, or myself...

[JuliánFernández]

Remember that great players are always playing THE ROOM, not just his instrument!
You can´t play at the same volume in a small club than in a huge arena...
Try to make him (the drummer) understand that, or maybe take him to small clubs to see how pros play! Good luck!

[nddhc]

Yeah everyone else pointed out the "hit the cymbals softer" thing which you should try first. Any kind of treatment on the cymbals will kill the tone, but you could try strips of masking tape or even those Moongel things if your drummer wont budge.... (and in that case.. a new drummer?? )

The only time ive treated my cymbals was when I was going for an extremely dead drum sound. I took the front head off my kick and the bottom heads off my toms and then put strips of masking tape on all my cymbals to get that super dead 70s sound.....but it made my cymbals sound only slightly better than trashcans

[boldstein]

Gotta admit...it sounds like he may not be the best drummer to be working with. However, investigate the cymbals too, not just the room. A lot of cymbals are "washier" than one would hope for, and build up on themselves really quickly. Don't underestimate the beauty of a really nice, really great cymbal.

[Seafroggys]

Never muffle cymbals. The tape or whatever else you use will restrict the natural vibration of the cymbal, leading to crackage.

[Jouni]

Well......

The only option, since I can't influence the two drummers and shouldn't muffle the cymbals.. Would there be anything that can absorb the high frequencies of them?? ..to put, foe example on the ceiling above??

..Perhaps I'm just to get a decent cable and play in the next room.

[gbondo9]

1. I hope your wearing ear protection. Standing next to the drummer in small room is a good way to damage your eardrums.
2. If your drummer is interested in being a better drummer - he needs to learn dynamics. If he wants to excel in any way at all and to improve - this is a good first step. I would keep pushing for this as a the #1 way to fix your problem.
3. If he cant learn dynamics - how about these? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...cks?sku=443400
I've never loved them as sticks - but damn they sure make me quieter.
4. Rigid fiberglass covered in felt - or Auralex foam would help dampen (and deaden) a rooms high frequencies. It would probably help with the reflections and ring of the cymbals - but it's also going to do the same to the guitar and vox.

[Jouni]

Originally Posted by gbondo9

4. Rigid fiberglass covered in felt - or Auralex foam would help dampen (and deaden) a rooms high frequencies. It would probably help with the reflections and ring of the cymbals - but it's also going to do the same to the guitar and vox.

Thanks!!
I can bet my collection of earplugs that I'm not going to get the drummers to play with a bunch of kebab-sticks taped together either.
(HC nylontipped vic firth5bn-fans)
But If I'll get my hands on those auralex-thingies or fiberglass-felt-pieces we might throw those in the ceiling above the drummer and the corner behind him.
Guitars and vox are coming from the opposite corner....?

[gbondo9]

Originally Posted by Jouni

Thanks!!
I can bet my collection of earplugs that I'm not going to get the drummers to play with a bunch of kebab-sticks taped together either.
(HC nylontipped vic firth5bn-fans)
But If I'll get my hands on those auralex-thingies or fiberglass-felt-pieces we might throw those in the ceiling above the drummer and the corner behind him.
Guitars and vox are coming from the opposite corner....?

You'll have to play with it. Room acoustics are pretty complex - depending on a lot of factors. If its a small room with reflective surfaces, walls and ceilings - then no matter where you put material to absorb sounds - it going to change the dynamic of the whole room. The direct sound emanating from a single source is going to bounce of every wall in a small room (probably several times). By putting up a bunch of foam, fiberglass, carpet, blankets etc.... You may end up with too much bass when you're done - which is just as problematic - but on the other side of the spectrum.

Good luck.

[Gorty]

I didn't have time to read through all the posts but placing some OC703 or acoustic foam above the drummer in a cloud type application should definitely help in reducing that harshness/crackling that you can get in your ears after constant exposure to cymbals.
I have lost approxiamately 15db in the 6000 khz range in my left ear due to exposure to cymbals on stage.
Acoustic ear plugs are great in protecting your hearing and also in taking out a few db's across all frequencies.

[Supercreep]

+1 on the earplugs. Trust me, it'll take down the cymbals a notch.


Have everybody else turn down and force the drummer to learn to back off.

What kind of music is it? If it's balls to the wall metal I can see why he's trying to get a certain sound.

You could always practice with broken cymbals, too.

[mikeh]

First off - make sure you use earplugs (you'll be thankful in 20 years).

I have not seen anyone suggest lighter sticks or something like Hot Rods - anything to cut the volume is better than nothing. Now if he isn't mature enough to be willing (or able) to play softer - then he may resist different sticks. If that's the case - he has a lot of growing to do as a musician.

Someone elase mentioned ajusting technique to the room - a very accurate and insightful comment!!!

[Ding Dong]

the two best peices of advice i've heard so far are the earplugs, and using broken cymbals.

I think attacking the drummer by saying the reason his cymbals sound too loud is because he's no good, is stupid. some people just hit hard and thats the way it is. maybe his kick and his snare aren't loud enough? dynamics and control aren't always the answer, we're not all jazz mucisians here...

first of all, what kind of cymbals are they? that could be the whole problem. if he is using Sabian B8 pro, then god help you all... if it's loud music, which i assume it is, using a ride as a crash can help a lot- the lower frequencies of the wash sit nicely under the guitars. thats my two cents.