Mic'ing a BIG vocal group?

[jweder]

Hi all,

I'm a member of an amateur folk group with a bit of a twist. A large number of us (20 - 30, sometime more!) sit in a big circle in a hall, and sing our brains out once every few weeks. A month or so ago I recorded the group. Didn't really know what I was doing but figured I'd have fun with it.

Because I didn't want to disturb the usual flow of things, at least for this first attempt, i didn't try to reposition anyone. So I just put a table in the middle of the circle with the recording gear on it, and 4 mics around the table.

Overall it didn't seem to work out too badly, but I had some real problems trying to get decent audio levels. To get everybody's voice at about the same level with only 4 mics I kept them at about 8-10 feet away from the guys. I'm pretty darn sure this is NOT a good idea, but what else should I do when I can't get a BUNCH of mics (eg one for every 3-4 guys)?

Anybody have a simple suggestion for how to do this next time? Maybe the biggest question would be which mic to try. For the first session I rented mics. The rental place had 3 "shotgun" types (can't recall the name, but long black critters), and then threw in an AKG C451B for the 4th. I knew it wasn't a good mix, but that's all they had. Luckily the C451 has a switch to reduce its sensitivity to match the others. But in the end I wished I had 4 of that type - it seemed pretty sweet, and sensitive enough for my situation.

So again, how do I mic 6-7 people with one microphone, and scale that up to maybe 25 people with 4 mics, probably in a circle, so it can sound halfway decent? I'm not looking for CD quality here, just something nice for our own use.

Joel

[zorf]

stick a single omni in the middle.
but i'm weird, i like mono
Not sure if i'd want the reflections from the table, though. put it on a stand.

[Mikey77]

Originally Posted by jweder

So again, how do I mic 6-7 people with one microphone, and scale that up to maybe 25 people with 4 mics, probably in a circle, so it can sound halfway decent?

Joel

I don't know a lot about this sort of thing but I've sung in a few choirs over the years and I remember a sound engineer micing a similar situation with one large condenser set on the omni or figure 8 pattern. There's a CAD GXL 3000 going on this link for a steal of a price if you want to do it on a budget.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...one?sku=270366

It then just means that you can work out the balance of the choir members in a circle, or two hemispheres around the one mic. I'm sure there are more complex ways of doing it, but I know this worked for us. The sound of the room plays a big part.

[tmix]

I am no expert in this,
But I have done this a few times with good sucess by putting up an omni in the middle of the group (on a stand, not a table) but the twist was I organized them in groups by parts. then I miced the subgroups with a good cardiod condensor, so that later I could adjust some balances(by sections) in the overall mix .

I still ended up using primarily the omni but used a little of the close mics when solos came up or if part balances were off too much.

Tom

[ljmaxx]

You don't say what you are recording with but I'll assume you have at least 4 inputs. Try picking up 4 Behringer ECM8000 Mics and 4 boom mic stands. If you have 30 people sitting in a circle position all 4 mics above the group pointing down equally spaced. Just think of a clock and put a mic at 12, 3, 6, & 9 about 7 feet above the group. Have the people sing as you set your levels and start recording.

You should be able to do the above for less than $300. Links below for 4 mics - $196 and 6 stands - $99. You end up with 2 extra stands but you always need extras. Good luck.


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...one?sku=270400

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...age?sku=452062

[mshilarious]

If you have a pair of fig 8s, you could set up a Blumlein pair, which will get the whole circle in stereo. Other than that, try to teach them the bluegrass method of stepping forward when it's their turn to sing, and overall just balance their own level.

You could also try a boundary mic on the table.

[timboZ]

Originally Posted by ljmaxx

You don't say what you are recording with but I'll assume you have at least 4 inputs. Try picking up 4 Behringer ECM8000 Mics and 4 boom mic stands. If you have 30 people sitting in a circle position all 4 mics above the group pointing down equally spaced. Just think of a clock and put a mic at 12, 3, 6, & 9 about 7 feet above the group. Have the people sing as you set your levels and start recording.

You should be able to do the above for less than $300. Links below for 4 mics - $196 and 6 stands - $99. You end up with 2 extra stands but you always need extras. Good luck.


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...one?sku=270400

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...age?sku=452062

Better yet get 4 MSH-1's for $88 plus shipping (with free matching)
http://naiant.com/studiostore.html


.

[ofajen]

If it were me, I'd take a pair of Shure SM-80s (accurate, true omni mikes) and my homemade Jecklin disk and record to two tracks. David Josephson maintains a tech note on the use of the Jecklin disc and building one is cheap and easy: http://www.josephson.com/tn5.html Unfortunately, the SM-80 is discontinued. See if you can find a pair of decently flat, small diaphragm, true omni mikes. For the money, the Marshall 604 would be hard to beat. I'd hate to throw away the stereo information if I didn't have to. If possible, I'd see if people could limit themselves to a half circle and put the Jecklin disk in the center. If not, the full circle would still work OK. Assuming they are all on a circle and thus the same distance from the mikes, the result will be as well-balanced as their singing.

Cheers,

Otto

[Big Kenny]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

If you have a pair of fig 8s, you could set up a Blumlein pair, which will get the whole circle in stereo. Other than that, try to teach them the bluegrass method of stepping forward when it's their turn to sing, and overall just balance their own level.

You could also try a boundary mic on the table.

Less work, good results

[jweder]

Wow, some awesome suggestions here folks! Thanks very much!! I really like the idea of keeping it simple, though I'm not sure I'm ready to go mono. Two crossed figure 8's, or maybe 4 mics placed up high, are ideas I'm sure I'll experiment with.

I was using a Yamaha AW1600 that day, though next time I'll be recording with something a little less annoying. Bought an Alesis Multimix 12 with Cubase. Now I know that'll start a whole new discussion, but trust me, so far running Cubase is WAY easier than running that bleeping Yamaha!

Some great links to check, thanks again! I'll be busy for a while.

Joel