Tuning - is this right? (audio clips included!)

[nddhc]

Ive been trying to learn how to tune drums correctly. Ive watched youtube videos about it, I read just about all of the Drum tuning bible, ive read multiple posts on this and other forums, etc

I recently replaced all my heads (the previous owner didnt replace the batter heads for 3 or 4 years and the resonant heads had NEVER been replaced.. so they were almost 20 years old) I ended up choosing G2 Coated heads for the Batter side and G1 coated heads for the resonant side. I heard that this combo can give you a nice warm tone and so far I like it....but I cant seem to get the tuning right. At least I dont think im getting it right?

Before I put the new heads on I gave the drums a well deserved cleaning, took off all the hardware, polished the chrome, cleaned and polished the wood shells, etc. I also checked the bearing edges as best as I could by putting them on a flat surface and checking for warps or dings. Everything seemed good! I followed instructions I read on putting a thin layer of wax on the bearing edge, tuning the lugs using the X pattern, seating the head and tuning it higher than you want at first, etc etc.

So now heres the audio clips. They were recorded using 1 Octava MC012 (chinese version) pointing down towards the center of the head about 1 foot above it.

http://rapidshare.com/files/38973455/Drum.zip.html

Is this what a tuned drum is supposed to sound like or did I miss something along the way? From everything ive read this is the best I was able to come up with...and to me it just doesnt sound that great. Maybe I just dont know what im listening for...

The drumset is a Pearl BLX Birch kit from the late 80s/early 90s. The drum I posted audio clips of is 12" diameter, 10" depth. Apparently they were one of the "top of the line" kits offered by Pearl at that time. Over at the Pearl Drummers Forum site (which im still awaiting activation) a lot of people have the BLX kit and it seems to be well desired. Some of the members have BLX kits that sound amazing. One of the members had G2 Coated heads on top and Remo Clear Diplomat heads on the resonant side and I really liked the way it sounded - maybe ill have to get some diplomats next time

[nddhc]

I forgot to mention that I placed the drum on carpet to mute the side I wasnt recording. I took a stick and tapped the head about 1" away from each lug, and there are six lugs on this drum.

For the "Drum.wav" file I held the drum in the air with one hand and hit it with a drumstick so you could get the full open tone.

[hoops]

It sounds like the skins are still not in tune. If the skin is in tune it should have a smooth decay and have very little to no waver in the sound. You have to get the top and bottom skin in tune with each other. A drum dial may help out. They are great for getting the tension of each lug close to the others but you will still have to fine tune it by ear. It really takes some ear training to get the hang of it. Keep trying. It will take time.
Also putting coated skins on the resonant side will cut down on the tone of the drum. Try a single ply clear. Coated skins are tricky to tune if you don't have the experiance. Good luck.

[ez_willis]

Bad link. Repost it.

It looks like you did everything right, with the exception of-

tuning it higher than you want at first

Never heard that before, but drums are not my primary instrument so I could be wrong.

I just replaced the tops and bottoms on my kit and went with Genera G2's on the tops and G1's on the bottoms. Tuned up quickly and easily.

Drum tuning is an art, and it's subjective. If the drum sounds good to you, then it's good.

[ez_willis]

Originally Posted by hoops

It sounds like the skins are still not in tune.

?? I didn't see a file to listen to when I clicked the link??

[nddhc]

To download the file you have to press the link and scroll down to the very bottom and click "Free"


Hoops - the waver is exactly what I mean. When I tap the head 1" away from each lug they sound like theyre the same pitch and the top and bottom heads seem to be the same as well (to me)

I definitely hear the waver but what else am I missing? Because to me, like I said, it sounds like each lug is in tune......but im not sure what else to listen for!

Based on the Wav files can you suggest anything?

Thanks!

[nddhc]

After watching more youtube videos I realize I may have been tuning mainly to the attack and not so much the harmonics of the drum.

Ill mess around with it tomorrow and see what I come up with. I also realized that maybe my drum isnt completely round or maybe my hoop isnt flat so ill check those things too.

[Greg_L]

Post the sound file where we don't have to jump through hoops to hear it.

[Drakaland]

Something I've always had issues with was tuning my drums, even though I've been playing for 18+ years.

I might get flamed for this by tuning purists, but I use a drum dial to do my tuning. If you're having issues it can really help get you into ballpark before you make refinements. I think they run about 50-60 dollars US.

Tuning by ear is a developed skill, but a drum dial can help you learn what to listen for. It still takes time to use however, and some slight experimentation since all drums are different, but there are recommended settings for the different drum sizes you can go with before you make your refinements.

You basically dial in your lugs and try to obtain the same readings at each one. You work your way around the drum in the same fashion you would normally, using small increments, and moving from one lug across to the next.

[ez_willis]

Originally Posted by Drakaland

I might get flamed for this by tuning purists, but I use a drum dial to do my tuning.

"tuning purists"? That is fucking absurd. Not your comment, but that such an animal exists. I'm certain there are no "tuning purists" who play a stringed instrument. It sounds like an easy way for an uppity drummer with low self-esteem to feel better about himself.

Use the tools at your disposal. Even apes do it.

[Drakaland]

Originally Posted by ez_willis

"tuning purists"? That is fucking absurd. Not your comment, but that such an animal exists. I'm certain there are no "tuning purists" who play a stringed instrument. It sounds like an easy way for an uppity drummer with low self-esteem to feel better about himself.

Use the tools at your disposal. Even apes do it.

Haha no kiddin eh?

It's absurd but true. I've been on a number of drum forums where 'tuning purists' have ventured into drumdial discussions to completley trash the use of the tool. Whatever works, go for it.

[ecktronic]

I dont like the sound of the Tom recordings.
I wouldnt say the tom was in tune. Probably a good deal away from what you would like. Doesn have a tight sound, sounds attacky and thin, rather than tight and smooth and warm.

I aint no drum tuner though.
Wish I was.

Id look into the drum dial.

Eck

[nddhc]

These drums are driving me crazy-

Now im noticing a rattle in some of the lugs on the rack AND floor tom. Some sort of vibration that occurs when the head is struck. I cant figure out where its coming from. At one point I narrowed down the lug but everything was securely fastened and it was NOT loose.

Also, this drum really starts sounding great in lower pitches but I cannot get my 16x16 floor tom as low as I need it in order to compliment the rack toms pitch.

When my floortom starts getting that low, the head begins to rattle and buzz. Could this be a problem with the seating of the head or perhaps a problem with the bearing edge that I did not notice?

[Drakaland]

You should always start with your deepest tom first for tuning. When you have it sounding right, you work your way backwards through the other toms, tuning the smallest tom last. The large toms are a bitch to tune, but taking that approach should solve your problems with it being too low.

[groovyisland]

torque dials are cool but how do you know each lug is operating perfectly? you really ought to make sure the lugs are clean with no imperfections and well greased if you want to use a dial.

i actually used a guitar tuner for a while. you can get your heads to ring out and sustain long enough to get a reading. you can hum along if you need to to get a stable reading. you can watch the needle go up and down as you turn each lug.

the best drum tuning advice ive ever heard is "i just twist em up til they sound good"

play a cd of your favorite drummer and tune along with that. tune your drumkit to samples that you like. find the sweet spot for each drum by pressing the head with your fingers and go by feel. not too loose not too tight. i used to go by press rolls. i made my press rolls sound the way i liked em and then put a tune on and turned one lug til i found a sweet spot

maybe its not the tuning thats driving you nuts. maybe its the ringing. tape some strips of t-shirt to the shells and experiment putting the flaps on the head. the material will jump up when you strike and then it will deaden the ring. you get a wide open sound that then muffles.

theres all kinds of things you can do but it sounds like you need to work on your ear.

[Drakaland]

The drumdial isn't actually a torque tool (like the ones that measure lug tension). It measures the tension on the skin near the lug, letting you get the tension on the skin even around the drum.

[Greg_L]

I hate drum dials. I've tried them several times with different heads. The thing always leaves my toms sounding way too high. I always end up just re-doing them by ear like I always do to get them sounding good. Fuck drum dials.

[nddhc]

Can heads sometimes be too big for drums which wouldnt allow you to get a low note since you have to tune them higher to stretch them over the edge?

My rack tom is 12" but it measures 11.75" - could that be an issue or am I overthinking things?


I have 2 unused toms that were given to me with my kit (My whole kit was given as gift from a family member) and they have Pinstripes on the batter side and the stock pearl heads on the resonant side. The resonant heads are old and dead but the batter heads are WAY easier to tune than the coated G2s... I can easily get them sounding really good..

Im starting to question my choice of heads. (But my kick sounds great! )

[Elton Bear]

No no no no no....

nddhc, your method is all wrong!!

First, don't try and take every bit of advice you find on the internet - a lot of it's great but you have to find what works for you.

Second, make sure your whole drum skin has the same pitch - when you hit it squarely in the middle, you should get one clean note, if the head sounds like it's bending from one pitch to another, something's out of tune. Don't worry about X patterns, star patterns, karma patterns, or any other crap - unless you have drums from the '50s or something it's old news. Drum production these days is all machine-led, and even late-60s sets are likely to be well made enough to have even curviture around the rim, so tuning adjacent lugs one after the other is not a problem.

Third, your top and bottom heads should never sound at the same pitch when played separately, because they start to vibrate in unison and then you get weird noises, on the sample principle as phasing in any other audio.

Fourth, chuck those Evans and get some nice Remo's, they tune much easier.

But most important is number Five - experiment! The method I've just described works for me and a few of my mates, if you follow it and get crappy results, try something else!
Also, practice tuning like you practice anything else, you won't be able to play drums any better from watching Buddy Rich on YouTube, and the same applies to reading about tuning.

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

I hate drum dials. I've tried them several times with different heads. The thing always leaves my toms sounding way too high. I always end up just re-doing them by ear like I always do to get them sounding good. Fuck drum dials.

Drum dials aren't meant to put your drums in tune. They are meant to make sure the tension at each lug is exactly the same. So if you know what tension each drum is to be at to make it sound its best then you are jamming.

Eck

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by ecktronic

Drum dials aren't meant to put your drums in tune. They are meant to make sure the tension at each lug is exactly the same. So if you know what tension each drum is to be at to make it sound its best then you are jamming.

Eck

Yes, this is true. What I was really bitching about are the recommended settings they provide with the dial.

Those suck.

I still think though that the drum dial is a completely unnecessary waste of 70 dollars. Learn to tune your drums by ear and you don't need any of that crap.

[hoops]

After watching more youtube videos I realize I may have been tuning mainly to the attack and not so much the harmonics of the drum.

Bingo! That is correct.

I might get flamed for this by tuning purists, but I use a drum dial to do my tuning. If you're having issues it can really help get you into ballpark before you make refinements. I think they run about 50-60 dollars US.

Tuning by ear is a developed skill, but a drum dial can help you learn what to listen for. It still takes time to use however, and some slight experimentation since all drums are different, but there are recommended settings for the different drum sizes you can go with before you make your refinements.

Good point. I used the drum dial for that same purpose. Now I can do it by ear.

Now im noticing a rattle in some of the lugs on the rack AND floor tom. Some sort of vibration that occurs when the head is struck. I cant figure out where its coming from. At one point I narrowed down the lug but everything was securely fastened and it was NOT loose.

The thing the lug is attached to has a spring inside. It could be loose.

You should always start with your deepest tom first for tuning. When you have it sounding right, you work your way backwards through the other toms, tuning the smallest tom last. The large toms are a bitch to tune, but taking that approach should solve your problems with it being too low.

Great point.

Third, your top and bottom heads should never sound at the same pitch when played separately, because they start to vibrate in unison and then you get weird noises, on the sample principle as phasing in any other audio.

I think this was aimed at my comment about having the top and bottom tuned together. I didn't mean the same note but harmonic wise. Sorry, for the misunderstanding.

[groovyisland]

you can set up some totally cool pitch bends by monkeying with the relationship between the top and bottom heads.

i wound up removing the bottom heads and all related hardware because i prefer the sound of "concert toms" and its so much easier to deal with them.

remo coated pinstripes all around

[nddhc]

K I took off the G2/G1 heads and replaced them with the OLD Pinstripe heads. I took my old pearl resos and cut a giant hole to basically give me the one headed tom feel for now (Ringo anyone?)

I talked to Evans and they said that the head shouldnt be separating from the bearing edge with lower tunings and that they have experienced this problem with Pearl drums in the past. They said the EC2 heads should allow me to get lower tunings and hopefully wont have the same separation problem.


So theyre sending me replacement heads for free, both batter and resonant heads. EC2 batters and the Glass Resonant....and I couldnt be happier

Ill let you guys know how it goes.

[BlackHawk2029]

drums are actually supposed to be made undersized so that the heads can fit on..... but 1/4 inch is WAY undersized. i've always seen that drums should be 1/8" undersized.