Kick pedal bouncing! Grrrr..

[aidan_m]

I was recently recording and decided to use the clicky hard side of my beater, but it ends up leaving an after-bounce off the skin.. i.e. beater hits when supposed to but then bounces off the skin again.. (duh-dum)
Ended up having to gate the kick to eliminate this but would appreciate any tips on how to stop it all together without going back to soft side of beater..
Any advice on skin tension/spring tightness/beater angles etc.. appreciated!

[MadAudio]

My guess is it's your technique. When you play, do you tend to let the beater rest against the head on a hit? If so, that's the problem.

[aidan_m]

was thinking that, but p[laying and recording for years and have never had the problem, do rest after hit though..

[Farview]

You've had the problem, you've just never noticed it. With a soft beater it would tend to bury, with a hard one it will bounce.

If you loosen your head, it might help. You could just make an effort not to rest the beater on the head...


Your technique will also be a problem if you ever decide to start using triggers.

[JuliánFernández]

Oh no... don´t say that, please...
I´m not sure if you guys -telling that burying the beater is a problem- are drummers or not, but any experienced player will tell you that there´s nothing wrong about that...
Many many top players bury the beater. Vinnie, Porcaro, Erskine (funky era), Vega...

You need to work on your foot control, that´s all...
You may wanna try heels down, heels up, burying or not burying the beater... Is about comfort and making the GROOVE happens.
Experiment, and have fun...

HTH.

[Farview]

Burying the beater isn't a problem unless:
A. you can't control it, so it bounces
B. you are using triggers and a double pedal

I am a drummer... And I bury the pedal, but I can control it and i play differently with triggers than I do without.


Another suggestion for the OP: Do you have a hole in the front head? If you don't, it will make the beater bouncier.

[MadAudio]

I am a drummer as well, and have been playing for nearly 30 years. Burying the beater can be fine as you have noted Julián, but it doesn't work in all situations - especially those that Farview has described.

My kick tone is very distinctive. For many years I have used a Tama plastic beater in conjunction with a hard plastic disc attached to the head, and letting the beater face release is essential. Just ask anyone who played my kit at JamFest 6!

[JuliánFernández]

Great guys... you´re right, the problem seems to come for lack of control...
I just wanted to chime in to adress that burying the beater is not a problem per se.

Cheers,
J.

[junplugged]

i had that problem for a while. sometimes it happens again when i'm not warmed up and my leg and foot is too tense and not releasing after the kick, and sometimes when i'm too far up on the pedal.

some harder beaters also make it worse, but i also saw an experienced drummer once have that happen when he was using a kit that wasn't his.

so it's a combination of what you're used to and the gear and it's subtle, but annoyed the heck out of me for a while and i posted all over about it.

i play mostly foot-down now and starting out with that was a lot of bounce/double hits, but not much anymore. i didn't get it w/ heal up, even when not bashing the beater/ leaving it in the head.

[junplugged]

or maybe i just have been using the felt for a long time since then?

[aidan_m]

So in summary, I'm not playing right???? After 20 years dang!!!

This happenned on a kit that 's not mine.. maybe down to the skin tension as I've never had the problem before with hard beater on click pads (and would have noticed before as I've played on a plenty released stuff!)

The drummers here:
So is it a bad technique to leave the pedal down after a hit? i play heel up and would just be floating my leg in the air if taking foot up after hits.. (p.s. i use pearl double pedal just for little fills and stuff not metal double pedal) I use a pearl pwershifter:
Like This One

Any and all help appreciated!!*

*Disclaimer: Advice I don't like will be ignored! Especially that pertaining to my bad technique!

[tmix]

I play heels up.
I also get to play a lot of different set ups at festivals.
Beater side head tension DEFINITELY plays a huge part, but it drastically effects the tone as well. The looser it is the less it double dribbles.
Also the pedal adjustment for heels up is more critical.
It helps to have a good adjustable pedal like an Iron Cobra where you can adjust the tension first, then move the beater while your leg is on the pedal putting the "at rest" weight on it where the beater is maybe a half inch or so off the head.

My experience anyway.

[aidan_m]

Originally Posted by tmix

I play heels up.
I also get to play a lot of different set ups at festivals.
Beater side head tension DEFINITELY plays a huge part, but it drastically effects the tone as well. The looser it is the less it double dribbles.
Also the pedal adjustment for heels up is more critical.
It helps to have a good adjustable pedal like an Iron Cobra where you can adjust the tension first, then move the beater while your leg is on the pedal putting the "at rest" weight on it where the beater is maybe a half inch or so off the head.

My experience anyway.

Thanks for the input.. I know the problem can't be me

[Farview]

Originally Posted by aidan_m

This happenned on a kit that 's not mine.. maybe down to the skin tension as I've never had the problem before with hard beater on click pads (and would have noticed before as I've played on a plenty released stuff!)

No one would have questioned your technique if you would have explained that this didn't happen on your kit and it wasn't the first time you used a hard beater and a click pad. Knowing that, it's obviously the pedal adjustment/head tension. Lack of a vent in the reso head will also give you more bounce if you are used to having a hole.

[JuliánFernández]

Let me say this...

It doesn´t make (or it shouldn´t make) any difference if is not your kit (or pedal)... I´d seen many pro player playing and grooving the hell of someelse´s kits...

You should be able to play any kit with enough control to make it sound good.
Anyway, i´m not sure if it´s a good idea to try "new things" when recording... Kenny Aronoff used to say: "Use what you practice, practice what you use".

Look it this way... you found that you´re control is better with soft beaters. Now you can go woodshed to achieve good control with hard beater, with both heels down or up technique.

JMHO.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by JuliánFernández

It doesn´t make (or it shouldn´t make) any difference if is not your kit (or pedal)... I´d seen many pro player playing and grooving the hell of someelse´s kits...
JMHO.

There is a big difference between the feel of a 24 inch kick with no front head and the batter head slacked out and a 20 inch kick cranked to the moon with a closed front head. Let alone being used to a Trick pedal and having to use a speed king.

Being able to 'groove the hell out of someone elses kit' assumes that the kit is set up somewhat appropriately for what you are doing.

No one can pull off big band swing on my kit, you can't play death metal on Buddy Riches old setup. It just won't happen no matter who you are.

[JuliánFernández]

Originally Posted by Farview

No one can pull off big band swing on my kit, you can't play death metal on Buddy Riches old setup. It just won't happen no matter who you are.

I disagree. Gear does not dictate what you can or cannot do. Ability and cotrol does.

I´m not saying that all kits are the same, there´s obviously better choices for different approaches/styles, but you can make swing a whole big band with almost any kit. BTW, Aidan "problem" is about control, IMHO, not gear. Ask any pro session drummer, and he´ll tell you that he´s supposed to deliver great music with any drumset.

Do you think Louie Bellson or Joe LaBarbera are not gonna make a band swing thier asses off if you give them a 24" bass drums and ZBT cymbals?! I bet they can.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by JuliánFernández

Do you think Louie Bellson or Joe LaBarbera are not gonna make a band swing thier asses off if you give them a 24" bass drums and ZBT cymbals?! I bet they can.

I'm not saying that they couldn't do what they do, I'm saying that they wouldn't make the drums speak like they should and I'm sure it would take them time to get used to the triggers. (try to do anything with brushes on a kit loaded with triggers)

Most guys bring their own pedals for a reason. You can't jump from an Axis to a speedking and expect to have the same speed (the pedal won't do it) or feel.

If you are used to having some bounce on the kick (or the other drums for that matter) and you jump on a kit with the heads slacked out, you won't be able to play your best. Possibly not the old school guys from the 50's that were playing crap equipment (by todays standards) to begin with, but they really weren't playing at the outer reaches of human ability. Some of them were possibly held back by the pedals and such that were available at the time.

I mean really, if a pedal will not follow your foot as fast as your foot can go, you aren't going to get it done.

Maybe you haven't been around enough of these guys when something isn't exactly to their liking.

[JuliánFernández]

Originally Posted by Farview

Maybe you haven't been around enough of these guys when something isn't exactly to their liking.

Oh, i really do. I remember Elvin pissed off in Europe (France maybe) for a crappy stool.

I agree with you, i just wanted to adress how important is being prepared to face any situation.
It works for me, at least. When i sit on a drumset i try to make it sounds good anyhow, and no matter how crappy the kit is, i try to do my best.

The bottom line to me is, woodshed and play as much as you can. Control is the key to grooving. And when we play, is the only thing that matters.

And, again, when recording try to do what you know you CAN do. Experiment is not a good idea for recording neither live playing.

Cheers.

[MadAudio]

I think the bottom line here, Aidan, is that you are not playing "wrong" and never have been. You're just having an unsurprising initial difficulty adjusting to a different method. You'll get through it.

[aidan_m]

Originally Posted by MadAudio

I think the bottom line here, Aidan, is that you are not playing "wrong" and never have been. You're just having an unsurprising initial difficulty adjusting to a different method. You'll get through it.

Cheers for all the input people.. Looks like I've started quite the debate!! Solved my problem anyway.. Dropped stool height a touch to give more leg control and problem solved!