Building a custom fretless bass

[metalhead28]

Picked up the lumber last night.
Curly maple / walnut laminate neck thru, Zebrawood for the body wings, and an ebony fingerboard.
I'm still undecided as to what, if anything, I will cap the body with. Maybe nothing since I have 2" Zebrawood. Maybe a piece of walnut. I've also got access to a pretty nice looking piece of coco bolo that I could bookmatch.

This is my first bass. Any bass builders here? Some things I am undecided on are the bridge style and the sort of nut I want to use. Anyone have any recomendations in that area?

[mshilarious]

Do fretless with a 36" scale length

[metalhead28]

I was thinking of maybe going 35, but since I'm used to 34 I'll probably stick to that. This is going to be a 5 string though. That will be new to me.

[MatthewRedStars]

If you are veneering the body don't forget to do the back too.

I have a nice Ibanez ATK thats capped with Koa but the idiots didn't balance the veneers and it's cupping quite badly, luckily it still plays and sounds great.

[crazydoc]

You're probably familiar with these, but just in case:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=57

http://www.mimf.com/cgi-bin/WebX

[IronFlippy]

A nice bone nut is always good, that's what I replaced mine with when I refinished my bass.

I wish I could help you with bridges, but I don't know anything about them.

What pickups are you getting? How are you finishing it? Can we see pics of the progress?

[metalhead28]

I haven't decided on the pickup yet. Probably some Bartolinis.

I'm thinking of getting a hipshot brass bridge. Finish wise - probably just a clear polyurethane or something for some gloss. No finish on the neck.

Sure, I'll post pics of the progress. I'm still in the design stages now - not ready to start cutting just yet. I'm sort of copying off of an Alembic Rogue body style.

[Light]

My favorite bass bridge is the Hipshot A style bridges. I also like the Hipshot ultra light gears.

As for the scale length, I would go with at least 35 if you are making a 5 string. 34 inch B strings just sound floppy.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[muttley600]

For five string the longer the string length the better.

As to capping the Zebrano/zebrawood, why? I always think that if you have a nice piece of timber why hide it. A capped top is usual on not so pretty wood. I'd go with the zabrano and leave it at that but thats just my opinion.

If you are veneering the body don't forget to do the back too.

True it is standard practice to use backing veneer for most applications, but you should be OK with the type of body you are considering. The more wildly figured the timber the more likely you are to see it pull the substrate. Koa can be very bad in this respect. You can kill the grain by using a compound backing if your worried but you will see a line at the join. A lot will be down to the timbers concerned.

Can't advise on the bridge as I build very few basses. As with 7 string guitars I would imagine a lot is down to availability and your personal choice.

[thewanderer24]

for 5 string it ain't just about the scale length. there's a zillion other factors that go in as well. If you've ever played a sadowsky 5, you'll know that a 34" B string can be tight, punchy and defined - I'd put the B string on a sadowsky up against anything else you find at any scale length, and they only do 34".

Keep in mind, changing the scale length will have an effect on the tone you get. Maybe better, maybe worse. Depends on what you're after.

[metalhead28]

I've decided that I won't cap the body - the zebrawood I've got for the body looks great - it's not the straight lined stuff - it's got very interesting streaks through it and I want to show it off.

I'm still undecided about the scale length. I'm probably going to go play some basses.

[metalhead28]

I'm actually designing this bass in 3D before I build it.
What do you guys think so far?

[mshilarious]

I think I'd lean towards cramming the bridge all the way on the butt of the body, to maximize scale length.

[castlerock]

Originally Posted by metalhead28

I'm actually designing this bass in 3D before I build it.
What do you guys think so far?

that's gonna be badass. can we look forward to some tracks of you thumping on it ?

[muttley600]

Looks great on paper. I can't see any construction issues with it. If your tool skills are as good as your CAD your onto a winner. Is the headstock going to be angled? Just asking cos you'll need to consider how you cut or scarf it an what size your stock is before you start cutting. Inline might save you time and timber. Not a big issue but worth some thought now. A good scarf on maple is tricky and to cut from one piece can be waste full

Great looking bass though keep us posted with your progress. Reminds me of the Washburn Taurus.

[metalhead28]

Originally Posted by muttley600

Looks great on paper. I can't see any construction issues with it. If your tool skills are as good as your CAD your onto a winner. Is the headstock going to be angled? Just asking cos you'll need to consider how you cut or scarf it an what size your stock is before you start cutting. Inline might save you time and timber. Not a big issue but worth some thought now. A good scarf on maple is tricky and to cut from one piece can be waste full

Great looking bass though keep us posted with your progress. Reminds me of the Washburn Taurus.

Yeah, the headstock will be angled and I'm using enough stock to do the whole thing from one piece...well.....5 pieces.

Thanks and I'll post some pics once I start cutting!

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by metalhead28

Yeah, the headstock will be angled and I'm using enough stock to do the whole thing from one piece...well.....5 pieces.

Thanks and I'll post some pics once I start cutting!

Ok, same as your average archtop neck. That would work just fine.

As a matter of interest what was your inspiration for the outline and design?

[metalhead28]

Originally Posted by muttley600

Ok, same as your average archtop neck. That would work just fine.

As a matter of interest what was your inspiration for the outline and design?

When I started this I was planning to sort of copy an Alembic Rogue - but as I've been looking at alot of other custom basses I've been going in other directions. I like this guys basses:

http://www.hanewinckelguitars.com/

Also, I like some stuff from Tobias and Zon basses. I guess it's a mixture of looking at all of those.

[muttley600]

Nice basses. That outline style is becoming quite generic these days mainly I would guess because it works and although I'm by ne means a bass guy. The ones I've picked up do balance well. The one I was referring to despite being a cheepo was this one. Mainly because its neck thru and symetric in the lower bout. I saw a truck load of them last week when dropping and collecting in town last week. Your inspiration is better than the Washburn. Go for it.

[Milnoque]

You may have fun looking at the Wishbass Website

http://wishbass.com/pages/943108/index.htm

Steve is an original there are some fun designs in his galleries.

I like your design. It's attractive and it should balance well.

It's been my experience that fat neck profiles are more comfortable than modern thinner ones. They cause less cramping and fatigue, but they take some getting used to. They also have better sustain. I say this because you can always remove more wood if you find its not to your taste.

Be advised that fretless fingerboards are even less forgiving about surfacing that fretted ones. Be very anal about getting it perfect. A long radius block would be a good investment.

You might also consider dual truss rods ala Rickenbacker.

[metalhead28]

Originally Posted by Milnoque

You may have fun looking at the Wishbass Website

http://wishbass.com/pages/943108/index.htm

Steve is an original there are some fun designs in his galleries.

I like your design. It's attractive and it should balance well.

It's been my experience that fat neck profiles are more comfortable than modern thinner ones. They cause less cramping and fatigue, but they take some getting used to. They also have better sustain. I say this because you can always remove more wood if you find its not to your taste.

Be advised that fretless fingerboards are even less forgiving about surfacing that fretted ones. Be very anal about getting it perfect. A long radius block would be a good investment.

You might also consider dual truss rods ala Rickenbacker.

I have stumbled upon the Wishbass site before, those are definitely some original designs, and cheap! Cool stuff.

Concerning the fingerboard, I've got the option to cut any of this stuff on a CNC mill at work. I was thinking that if I did a compound radius I might cut the fingerboard that way...I'm just not sure yet if that's what I want. If I do a uniform radius I'll just make myself a huge radius sanding block!
I will definitely not be shaving that neck down very thin. I prefer a fatter neck these days anyway.

[eyeteeth]

Not sure if it's been mentioned before...

I recently build a 35" 5'ver, and LOVE the thing. The extra inch really makes a difference in playability and tone. You get extra tension on the string for the same note, and it really tightens up the ound from the low B. It really helps with detuning too. I used to hate dropping pitch on my 34" 5 strings because everything gets so "sloppy". The extra scale definitely helps, and it's not THAT big of a difference in playability.

IMHO...

Also... I recommend looking into either an Oil finish or a Nitro based finish. Stay away from the Poly stuff if you can. The Oil really allows the "wood" to come through in the tone, and you'll be amazed as the additional sustain.

Looks like a fun project.

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by eyeteeth

Not sure if it's been mentioned before...

I recently build a 35" 5'ver, and LOVE the thing. The extra inch really makes a difference in playability and tone. You get extra tension on the string for the same note, and it really tightens up the ound from the low B. It really helps with detuning too. I used to hate dropping pitch on my 34" 5 strings because everything gets so "sloppy". The extra scale definitely helps, and it's not THAT big of a difference in playability.

IMHO...

Also... I recommend looking into either an Oil finish or a Nitro based finish. Stay away from the Poly stuff if you can. The Oil really allows the "wood" to come through in the tone, and you'll be amazed as the additional sustain.

Looks like a fun project.

The extra string length is correct.

Stay away from nitro unless you have the equipment and expertise to use it safely. Realy unless you intend to do quite a few instruments the potential risk to health and the regulations regarding its spaying are not worth the effort.

Can you explain how a soft non elastic finish increases sustain?

For a natural finish like the oil finishes sold in hardware stores today nearly everyone in the trade uses Danish oil, tung oil, or something similar. They all have a polymer base to allow you to build a protective finish. It's usually a polyurethane of some sort. For a harder lacquer finish I would recommend one of the many excellent purpose made waterborne finishes supplied by either stew mac or LMI. Good high gloss finishes can be had with other off the shelf options but they are not cheaper.

[Milnoque]

I gotta agree with Muttley on the finish. I have used LMIIs KTM-9 recently and can vouch for it. I believe it to be comparable to nitro as an instrument finish. Big words I know, but I'm not a beginner. Alot of high end builders are going to low VOM finishes and not because they're afraid of nitrocellulose.

I have no doubt that the stew-mac stuff is terrific as well.

This is a recording forum and I wish someone who visits here would put some of these assumptions to the test. If you're going to refinish your guitar please post before and after recordings and tell us what you used. I would be very interested in the results.

[metalhead28]

Okay, you guys have just about convinced me to go to a 35". I'm sure I won't do 36 though.

I plan on putting active electronics in there - and I don't honestly think the finish on the body, or even the body wood is going to effect the tone very much. I may be wrong. However, I may end up with just an oil finish, I'll decide once I get to that point I suppose.

Okay. Talk to me about pickups. The bass I'm used to has active humbuckers. I like the sound pretty well, but it's a fretted bass. The fretless bass I own now has a single passive soapbar pickup. It's a little bland, and I'm not sure how much more I might like an active soapbar pair.
I want this bass to have a fat ass thump in the lower registers, and I want the growl and really pronounced "mwah" sound in the mid and upper registers...but no harshness. What sort of pickups do I want? Should I stick to humbuckers?