direct electric guitar

[cello_pudding]

the search is failing me right now, so i'm sorry if this is a huge subject.

I'm trying to help this guy on another board, and i'm not having success.

he has an maudio usb as his preamp. he records direct and dislikes the tone. he says he needs a new interface, and i keep telling him it's not his interface. I suggested a mic since an "upgrade" from a $150 interface will be more than the cost of a 57 and an e609 combined.

he tells me he doesn't want to mic. i suggest a pod, behr vamp, or boss gt3. he dislikes the pod tone. he has a nice peavey 5605 head with an orange cab. he tours for months and writes on the road with a laptop. i suggested recording direct and then reamping once he gets home. he doesn't want to do the cheap and amazing tone way.

i suggested a tube power amp, direct out of the head and i'm going to give up.

he's basically asking how to get a huge sound recording direct and listening back on his headphones.

i giggled in his general direction.

[scrubs]

Some people can't be reasoned with. You might tell him to check out the Damage Control stuff if he doesn't like the POD.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Let's see...

He doesn't like direct.

He doesn't like amp modeling.

He doesn't like reamping.

he doen't like miking the amp.

Sounds to me like the problem just might be the ear and not the gear. The solution might just be replacing himself.

G.

[Farview]

Yup, he is the problem. Trying to get a huge tone just for getting ideas down is a little stupid too. No matter how you go about it, it's going to be too much work to set up...and then the idea is gone.

He has backed himself into a corner that only he can get out of. He is expecting top studio quality in a motel room, he's insane.

[cello_pudding]

thing is...he's heard "many direct to computer recordings that come out sounding really well"

[Farview]

Originally Posted by cello_pudding

thing is...he's heard "many direct to computer recordings that come out sounding really well"

Then it must be him.


How were those recordings done? Maybe he should try that.

[technominds]

Ive never had a problem with going direct into Guitar Rig... You cant really fault it... and even using the crappiest amps and mics ive also got some great guitar sounds..

this guy sounds like a very unexperimental person

[TerraMortim]

yeah the problem is definately his ear, then. You can get a good tone out of direct recording with software (just a little harder to do). The thing he needs to know is that there are many ways to do things, and not to rule any way out that has given people good results.... micing is great when done right, direct when done right can sound great... pods sound just fine, and re-amping is one of the best ideas out there. I totally agree with farview...You can't concentrate on the tone and mix when you're getting ideas down... you'll just end up losing all your ideas, and really the way the music is written can give you a bigger tone sometimes even more than your technique... there are just some people that will never have a certain tone no matter what they do, because of how they play, their guitar, or the way the song is arranged.

[TerraMortim]

Originally Posted by technominds

Ive never had a problem with going direct into Guitar Rig... You cant really fault it... and even using the crappiest amps and mics ive also got some great guitar sounds..

this guy sounds like a very unexperimental person

YUP! the player matters way more than the gear or method! But, fuck..there's big bucks in tricking people into thinking their piece of gear will turn them into randy rhodes. Experimentation is essential sometimes!

[IronFlippy]

Tell him to learn about convolution reverb, it's the next best thing to reamping.

Another *very* important factor is the guitar/pickups. I didn't realize this before when just using a crappy Epiphone guitar direct, sounded like shit. Then I tried a Yamaha/Strat copy and I think it just sounds much better direct than the other one. For clean tones anyway. Not nearly as much of that 'fuzzy'/extremely digital/fake' sound. I can only imagine what a really nice guitar with nice pickups sounds like. Still not as good as a nice amp of course.

For heavy stuff I would definitely use an amp. Maybe some good guitars/guitar players/great amp sims/good engineers could get it right, but for heavy distortion I would personally use a decent mic and a great sounding amp.

If he doesn't understand that then it's his loss.

[omtayslick]

I saw a TV commercial where some guy got a pretty good sound going through a Volkswagon car stereo. Might be just the ticket for this guy!

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by omtayslick

I saw a TV commercial where some guy got a pretty good sound going through a Volkswagon car stereo. Might be just the ticket for this guy!

. And being able to play like Slash would be a help too. That guy is into far more than just shredding; he knows his musicianship.

G.

[mrface2112]

first off, +1 to the "it's him" diagnosis. i'm glad someone said it, b/c that's the first thing that went through my mind too.......b/c been there, been that guy. he's fscked until he can deal with it, and that's the only way that can be fixed. that said, i can understand wanting or needing to DI the guitar. i agree that it's not ideal (i too prefer miking an amp), but we often have to deal with and make the most of it. here's a couple things i've found useful when recording DI guitar:

1. some guitars just don't sound that great DI'd. pickups and electronics do make a difference.
2. make sure to match up the pickups with the proper DI. passive pups need an active DI and vice-versa.
3. a decent DI is essential--i love my countryman. lots of good things are said about the radial ones too.
4. running the DI into different sounding mic pres can really help sculpt the tone.

i've found modellers to be fun to get neat tones out of, but i've never been able to get them to work in a mix and sound "real enough" to work with "real" (non-triggered/sample replaced) drums. that's not to say that some folks don't use them to great success.

i've gotten some excellent clean strat/tele tones out of my strat/tels->countryman->minime. the soft-limit compression on the minime really helps get the sound nice and fat and spanky. i've never had much success with DI'd overdriven sounds, though. to me, they just don't seem to have the same kind of heft an amp has.

good luck to him and his quest!


cheers,
wade

[fishkarma]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

Let's see...

He doesn't like direct.

He doesn't like amp modeling.

He doesn't like reamping.

he doesn't like miking the amp.

Ha!
He obviously just hates the sound of guitars and cant deal with the fact that hes put time and effort into learning it. He's in denial!

On a different note Plugs can sound great on clean guitars, but on heavy guitars amps just work better.
Also need to make sure its DI or Hi-Z as opposed to line-in or you'll loose the higher frequency's
Last thing to try is amp head into speaker simulator into input mic pre. but thats gonna be costly and he will probably still hate it any way. mind its an excuse to buy new gear which is what he seems to want to do any way

[GreenDank]

Originally Posted by cello_pudding

he's basically asking how to get a huge sound recording direct and listening back on his headphones.

both the jcm900 plug in and the soldano plug in clones are nice.

the jcm900 coupled with the SIR plug-in and a mesa cab sim impulse is huge enough for his application. of course, like when he goes in the studio (he tours and I assume has gone into a studio, so he must know this) he'll need to record at least 4 rhythm guitars to really sound big.

here's the soldano: http://www.bteaudio.com/software/Juicy77/Juicy77.html

I don't have the jcm900 quick-linked.

If plug-ins, a pod-like device, or a sansamp-like device don't float his boat, he needs to stop trying to record himself or learn how to record.

[fishkarma]

Which 900 Plug? theres loads of them and i'll bet they all sound different!

i'll also bet its a VST

[GreenDank]

Originally Posted by fishkarma

Which 900 Plug? theres loads of them and i'll bet they all sound different!

i'll also bet its a VST

yes, VST:
http://www.simulanalog.org/guitarsuite.htm

[chessrock]

Just tell him go direct out of his amp head in to a Palmer Speaker Simulator (with power soak) and call it a day.

http://www.mercenary.com/papdspsi.html
.

[Good Friend]

im tired of hearing huge guitar sounds. tell your friend weve already heard enough guitar and we want to hear a new idea.

[Drumz519]

Originally Posted by Good Friend

im tired of hearing huge guitar sounds. tell your friend weve already heard enough guitar and we want to hear a new idea.

Accordian?

In all seriousness though, if he's not happy with the modelers that are out there, he's not going to be happy with anything for a portable idea rig. He needs to be more realistic.

[cello_pudding]

might i say, he is no friend. some bum on guitar.com's board

[DaProTool]

[QUOTE=GreenDank;2608145]yes, VST:
simulanalog.org/guitarsuite

I tried this one with my american tele plugged in directly in to the m-audio... the marshall sounds amazing!

[WERNER 1]

I've always been a big fan of mic'ing my guitars (amps/cabs),....and in the same token have always felt that the guitar softwares were pretty whimpy.......Then I started playing with the GR-2 stuff from NI...Not too shabby IMO ...The more overdriven stuff still lacks a bit, but the cleans are real nice! ...I'm just running one of my guitars straight in to my DMP3.

I'll have to try out those other VST's that have been mentioned....Thanks guys!!!

Rick

[random effect]

one thing i've noticed in recording direct is that if you crank the gain too much you get that really fizzy digital sound. I tried backing it down a bit one time and was shocked at the difference in tone. It still doesn't compare to my v32 palomino with a 57 and i5 on each speaker but it doesn't sound "bad". but bad is in the eye of the beholder