Recording a vocalist with extreme dynamics

[pathdoc]

I'm recording a young male with a tenor voice who belts certain parts of a song (usually the chorus) so loud compared to the rest of the song that its almost impossible to avoid clipping/overdriving the channel. I read somewhere that you could actually move the mic away from the vocalist during the louder parts. I haven't gone to that extreme yet but I did have him turn to the side when singing louder hoping to avoid extremes but to no avail. I do most of my vocal recording in a small iso boothe that is heavily treated. It does have a window which measures about 3x3 feet.
Have any ideas how I can capture the softer parts and still be able to capture the louder parts without overdriving the channel?
I guess I could ride the volume on the input bus but its hard to reduce the gain at just the right time.

[scrubs]

1. Teach the singer to back off the mic when he gets louder (similar to turning his head, but may sound better)
2. Place a second mic further away
3. Turn down the preamp gain so it's not peaking on the loudest parts
4. Use a pad on either the mic or preamp
5. Compression

[Dogman]

I'm loud, and have poor control.....I do as scrubs outlined, somewhat. I use a compressor on the way in, to try and tame the really bad peaks, plus try and remember to move back a little as I get loud.

[pathdoc]

I should run him through a compressor before putting running the signal into my computer. Good idea.

The booth is small and he really can't back up much further.

I really appreciate the advice.

[giraffe]

Originally Posted by pathdoc

The booth is small and he really can't back up much further.

bummer, cause to me the best answer is geting the singer to work the mic.

[pathdoc]

He does back off the mic but his volume is just so loud it still is too much signal. I had him back away and turn his head but still its a problem.

[tmix]

I recently ran into the same problem with 7 singers (all young) who were used to belting out on stage but not directly into their own mic. I did what scrubs suggested I set up a second mic as far away as was practical and set some pretty heavy limiting. I often had to use portions of the distant mic where they blewthe top off the mic or preamp when they got inspired,..

I also used as many dynamic mics as I could.

[chessrock]

Ever hear of a compressor?

.

[tmix]

Dont know if that is directed at me...

But as I said I used some heavy limiting....

If I set the pres (and compressors) to where they sounded good at the soft stuff it sounded crappy at the loud stuff. I backed it up with a second setup that sounded ok at high levels but was too wimpy at soft levels. I just cross faded at the appropriate times.

If that was not directed to me.. then forget what I just said.

[elementary]

Chessrock, you don't need to be rude. You consistently reply to legitimate questions, usually with the right answer, but you do it in a way as if to put the person down and imply they are stupid for not knowing. That kind of attitude doesn't help anyone.

[Ironklad Audio]

I read somewhere that you could actually move the mic away from the vocalist during the louder parts.

mic technique is key!

watch someone like christina aguilera or whitney houston sing some sort of ballad-y shit live - for the soft parts the mic will damn near be in their throat, then they'll back it off sometimes up to a foot when they really start wailing

[nddhc]

Is it possible to record the chorus separate and do it with less gain and/or a pad on the preamp? Ive never had the luxury of working with a singer who could do it all in one take so this is kind of the standard for me..

[pathdoc]

I was able to use a compressor and a limiter and I think I ended up with a okay although not stellar track. After all of that I noticed a couple of obviously flat notes that in itself should require the vocal track to be re-recorded. Still working at it.

[Farview]

Baking off for the loud parts will help, also coming in real close for the quiet part will help.

If it is really extreme, just do the choruses on a different track and back the gain off for those parts. This is what I do with the bands where the singer whines the verses and screams the choruses. I have a quiet seting and a screaming setting.

[amra]

Set your compressor at a high threshold (like -3 to -5), and a high ratio, with a hard knee. It won't touch the softer parts, but it will compress the louder parts, and hopefully keep them from clipping. This works well with hard rock or metal vocals.

If that doesn't work out for you, set the levels so the soft parts sound good, then record a take. Now set the levels low enough so the loud parts don't clip. record another take. Now trim out the hard parts and use the soft parts from the first take, and trim out the soft parts and use the loud parts from the second take...

[pathdoc]

I like the idea of using 2 mics at the same time. I could put one as far away as possible in the boothe, maybe even behind him. All good suggestions. Thanks

[legionserial]

I guess a quick way would be to make 2 copies of the vocal track in your sequencer. One track to concentrate on processing the quieter stuff, 1 track to concentrate on the louder stuff. Cut the loud bits out of the quiet track (tastefully of course) and vice versa for the quiet track. This is assuming that you are recording clipping in the first place.

If you can though, 2 microphones sounds a good way to go.

[pikingrin]

Originally Posted by nddhc

Is it possible to record the chorus separate and do it with less gain and/or a pad on the preamp?

+1 for that... Just try and record the verse and the chorus seperate, that way you have more control over the individual parts.

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by elementary

Chessrock, you don't need to be rude. You consistently reply to legitimate questions, usually with the right answer, but you do it in a way as if to put the person down and imply they are stupid for not knowing. That kind of attitude doesn't help anyone.

You're right.

I should have instead said : "Ever hear of a fucking fader or volume envelope?"

Those are the things that control volume. And they're pretty neat like that.

It would have been a lot nicer if I had said it that way. I'll try and watch myself next time.

.

[ecktronic]

Get him to belt out at a sound check. Adjust your pre-amp gain so he almost peaks when he belts. Then place a hard comp on the way in to ensure no peaking when recording.
If there are quiet bits that are just too quiet (i.e. not enough bits of information = bad quality) then do separate takes and boost the pre-amp gain a touch for the quiet bits.
Remember your exact gain settings for the belts and the quiet bits and youl be laughing.

I know its harder to do this if he is singing quiet then belting in the same phrase with no gap, but it is possible although a little tricky.

Eck

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by pathdoc

After all of that I noticed a couple of obviously flat notes that in itself should require the vocal track to be re-recorded.

Never heard of Autotune!??

lol, I shouldnt promote Chest(small)cock or even Autotune for that matter.
No offense Chessrock.

Eck

[pathdoc]

I tried riding the volume control slider at the input but his volume spikes are somewhat unpredictable and I would end up pulling the slider down halfway throught the offensively loud word and cut off the following word. I prefer to avoid heavy use of the compressor if I can help it but in this case it ended up helping.
Chessrock, your attitude is unprofessional at best. Why bother insulting others when your time is obviously so much more important than ours?

[pathdoc]

I do have a program in which I can work on tuning, Melodyne. I like it and use it when needed.
On this project I couldn't get the corrected vocal track to import back into Cubase. Not sure why it wouldn't. I just need to work with it a little longer. Its worked fine on other projects.

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by pathdoc

Chessrock, your attitude is unprofessional at best. Why bother insulting others when your time is obviously so much more important than ours?

What's more important ... me being nice to you and making you feel all warm and fuzzy?

Or getting a good answer to your recording question?

Look, this is really basic stuff, pathdoc. You track low enough to where you don't get clipping on the loudest passages. Then come mixdown, you use the volume envelope (or automated fader or whatever else is available to you) to manually bring up the quieter passages and/or knock down the loud ones. Done.

Or you use a compressor, or a combination of the two. That's how it's done, and that's always how it's been done in the 24-bit world, and since I don't see us going back to 8-bit any time in the near future, it's probably how it always will be done until someone invents something better.

Can I get you a hanky to dry your tears off with now?

[tmix]

Originally Posted by chessrock

What's more important ... me being nice to you and making you feel all warm and fuzzy?

Or getting a good answer to your recording question?

Hmmmm....
I dont THINK those are mutually exclusive.... Are they?