Vocal Recording Difficulty - Pros Please!

[BBad199]

I have been trying to fine tune mic placement for soft vocals and essentially duplicate the recording for Chris Rice's Untitled Hymn (Come to Jesus). My attempt is to learn to record soft passages effectively. I recorded the opening verse and compared it to a spectrum analyzer of the actual song to essentially A/B the frequency range to find out where the significants differences are (because I can hear them). I don't understand why I'm getting the results at I am. See the attachment photo for what I'm looking at.

The problem: The vocals sound boomy for no apparent reason, and the spectrum shows severe comb filtering from what appears to be proximity effect.

The details: The vocals are sung 12" away from an AKG c414 in cardoid with a pop filter. No mic filters applied. The signal chain is the mic-->studio projects VTB 1 pre at 55db gain (soft passage) on tube blend-->audiophile 2496-->cubase sx

1) Can someone please explain why this is happening? I refuse to believe that tools such as compression are essential for such a drastic problem as what I'm seeing. I feel like by heavily compressing, I'm loosing dynamics as well as trying to put a band aid on a bigger problem. What is causing this?

Thanks!
Jonathan

[TexRoadkill]

Take off the tube blend and try the HPF on the mic.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I'd also ask about the recording environment. How's the room in which the recording is being made and is it possible you're sitting the mic in a cresting harmonic bass node? Especially with the gain pumped for quiet passage work, you might be getting more of the room than you'd like.

As far as compression, I'm not familiar with that particular song or with your vocalist's sound and style, but chances are better than even that you'll want to use at least some compression to tighten up the overall envelope without sacrificing dynamics. But keep the compression clean and unnoticed, just enough to help the system make the vocalist sound good without soundig compressed.

G.

[mixsit]

Proximity effect causes low lift, not combing. Reflections can as Glen said.
Are the graphs of the voice solo or in the mixes?

[bennychico11]

also, even more importantly is you need to stop comparing your mix to someone else's under a microscope. using the spectrum analyzer to see if your frequency content is matching the original tracks is just asking for trouble because there are so many more factors than just the voice pitches that you're over looking. First off it's the voice itself. You have a completely different voice than Chris Rice does. So it's never going to look or sound the same unless you are great at impersonations. Secondly is the room itself, like Glen said. Most likely Chris Rice recorded in an actual studio, while you are maybe in your bedroom? Completely different acoustics.
Then on his album it was probably recorded with a completely different microphone into a completely different preamp, EQ, reverb and compression added, and mixed by a different set of ears. All that is going to affect the way the frequencies look in the spectrum. Heck, he could have even recorded onto 2" tape for all we know! Then the mastering engineer could have even used a multiband compressor.

So in short, compare the sound you're trying to record to what YOU want it to sound like in the mix. Otherwise you'll drive yourself crazy staring at spectrum analyzers and tweaking a frequency here and there wondering why you're so far off.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I agree 100% with what Benny says - as he well knows; he's heard me rant on about misuse of RTAs plenty of times in the past .

However in this case I see a justification for his using it here because there certainly appears to be some distinctive harmonic artifacting below 1kHz in the right-hand plot that IMHO it'd be hard to ascribe only to natural human voice tonalities or to specific mic or pre selection.

But Benny's right; once the source of the artifacting is found and resolved, "curve matching" is more often than not a dead end road.

G.

[chessrock]

Jesus Christ.

What the hell are you even trying to do ? ? ?

I don't even know where to begin. Holy Christ almighty. For starters ... let me get this straight; you're trying to "duplicate the recording" ? What the hell does that even mean? I got a better idea for ya ... why don't you just copy the damn disk?

Second of all ... since when did spectal analyzers show comb filtering, and when has proximity effect become a contributor to said comb filtering ? Oh my God, my head is spinning. And lastly ... what the holy hell does compression have to do with any of this? Did you just pull that out of the air?

The only tidbit of sense I can make out of your rambling excuse for a post is that ... you record your voice and it doesn't sound like someone else's recording.

Well DUH ! ! ! ! ! ! And yes, I realize I'm probably going to burn in hell for this post.

[HangDawg]

Originally Posted by chessrock

Jesus Christ.

What the hell are you even trying to do ? ? ?

I don't even know where to begin. Holy Christ almighty. For starters ... let me get this straight; you're trying to "duplicate the recording" ? What the hell does that even mean? I got a better idea for ya ... why don't you just copy the damn disk?

Second of all ... since when did spectal analyzers show comb filtering, and when has proximity effect become a contributor to said comb filtering ? Oh my God, my head is spinning. And lastly ... what the holy hell does compression have to do with any of this? Did you just pull that out of the air?

The only tidbit of sense I can make out of your rambling excuse for a post is that ... you record your voice and it doesn't sound like someone else's recording.

Well DUH ! ! ! ! ! !

Don't get upset. It's just Walters in disguise.

[chessrock]

No, BBad is truly a disturbed individual.

And I'm not just basing it on this thread, but from his history of threads just like this one that all seem to follow the same theme ... trying to take the art of recording and put it on a Goddamn graph where he can analyze it like an accountant would with a balance sheet or income statement.

BBad ... recording is about 75% art, and although there is some element of geekiness to it, it is by and large a right brain dominated process, with some sprinkles of left brain thrown in for good measure.

Graphs are not meant to be used the way you're accustomed to in your world where graphs, numbers and trends rule the land. Comparatively speaking, in the recording world, statistical functions, measurements, graphs, etc. ... yes they have their place. But you use them more in the way one might read tea leaves or tarot cards.

And using graphs and other left-brained tools in the recording world has about as much use as a business analyst using tea leaves, palm reading or dream interperatation to make important marketing decisions. There is a point here where the business and analytical environment that you are used to just doesn't apply or carry much relevence. There is a clash of worlds here that you need to come to grips with if you ever want to be serious about recording.

.

[cello_pudding]

yeah...i just sorta ignored the word compression...and thought he was talking about putting a band compressor to tame the low peak in the voice.

proximity? i thought proximity was more of an issue at 1-4 inches...not a foot.

because its when you get close when things get bassy. like in accapella groups when the bass guy tries to get right on the mic to give it a bassier sound. bassier...yes that's a technical engineer word.

anyways...the room may be the culprit, but...who cares about matching your graphs together. make it sound good, get a good take, do what you can.

[BBad199]

HA!

Chess, you crack me up. I have to say that I'm less offended than entertained by your posts cause it is probably true!

Mods just delete this thread please. Chess made me feel quite rediculous, and I'd rather not have the entire world enjoy reading about it!

[TexRoadkill]

There are no mods. It's like Lord of the Flies and it's your turn to be the pig.

[89gtsleeper]

Originally Posted by TexRoadkill

There are no mods. It's like Lord of the Flies and it's your turn to be the pig.

Oh man, you sick bastard. Good call.

[Garik]

BBad199 dont pay attention to the retardedness of the retards

There are some who are normal here.

[Albertm]

Originally Posted by TexRoadkill

There are no mods. It's like Lord of the Flies and it's your turn to be the pig.

haha, I'm just glad it wasn't me, been there already...