Can't totally get rid of audio from some tracks on 424mkIII

[rockgardenlove]

So on my new 424, when I try to record something onto an already used tape, you can still hear stuff in the background, regardless of if you turn down all the faders and tape cue knobs. How do I fix this?

Thanks!

[billyshuler]

Try recording "nothing" on the tape. Just recording on the tape with no sound going into the mixer. Blanking the tape out again might get rid of the noise. If that doesn't work you may need to clean and demag the recording/playback head.

[billyshuler]

When you say you hear sounds in the background do you mean a really muffled sound or is it clear sounding?

[rockgardenlove]

Hmm...the deal here is that stuff on track 3, that's all the way down, is bleeding through so I can hear it, even when NOTHING else on the mixer is up. All individual tracks+the master.

Shouldn't it just be quiet in this instance?

Could it be that I just recorded the audio in that track 3 way to loud, so the mixer can't mute it?

[billyshuler]

Sometimes I've had this happen as well. And, just like you, I think that the material was recorded too high (even though it doesn't make sense). Just switch the selecter switch for track 3 to the middle position, which is the off position ( the switch below where your tape goes ). This will simply turn the track off and it won't be put through the mixer section at all.

[rockgardenlove]

Bizarre. Nice to know I'm not alone though, I'm glad my recorder isn't broken or anything.
I just tested it, putting in a signal over +6 decimals always seems to hang out in the background. No big deal, I guess I just have to record properly in the first place.

One other thing, with DBX on, it seems to make a whooshing sorta noise behind the notes I play on my bass. When the note dies down, the wooshing goes away.

Is this normal?

[billyshuler]

Are you recording your bass direct? Sometimes effect units or pedals in you chain will cause this. If you're recording with a mic and amp then it's probably your bass/guitar amp. By the way, I've found that I get better results by blanking my used tapes out. I'm sure you already know this, but you should be using Hi-Bias Type II tape with this unit.

[rockgardenlove]

Yeah, I'm going DI for now, since it's pretty late and I don't wanna wake anybody up.

I'm actually using a standard bias tape right now, haven't had a chance to get any others yet.

[cjacek]

Ok, first of all you should NEVER be hitting tape that hard, with or without dbx. Bleed through is normal and is greater when you record at very high levels [especially without dbx], especially on the so called "narrow" track format (cassette). It is often erroneously recommended to "hit the tape hard". Don't do it. When you have dbx engaged it's pointless, as the signal is compressed anyway, and will introduce various artifacts to the sound when pushed that hard. When you push the levels with dbx turned off, on the other hand, you will get much more bleed, which may not be fully erased by anything other than a bulk tape eraser. Point is to always stay around 0db (+3 max) but only for peaks, no matter if you have dbx on or off. The bulk of your material should be recorded below 0db with occassional peaks at or just above 0db.

....and btw, buy a proper TYPE II tape, not to mention clean your tape path regularly.

[rockgardenlove]

Thanks very much, I'll be sure to watch the levels closer. It just seemed so quiet to listen to through the headphones at lower input volumes.

I ordered 10 SM-60 tapes, does that sound good for a start?

As for tape head cleaner, I looked for that too, but couldn't find the stuff mentioned in the manual. What exactly/where should I get it?

I bought my recorder off eBay and there's actually quite alot of dust and other little bits inside the cassette slot. I vacuumed it out and cleaned it up with some very mildly damp Q-tips. Any suggested way to clean it out?

I was also wondering if I could put some pot lubricant inside the sliders. They feel a bit rough in their sweep. Not sure how normal this is.

Thank you guys!

[cjacek]

Yeah, just watch the levels closely and peak at +3 max.

For regular tape path cleaning, just get some isopropyl alcohol, from a drug store, the 90% or better kind (I use 99%) and some cotton q-tips. Always squeeze out the excess. Clean the heads with it, after each longer recording session, it the direction of tape travel.

For the pinch roller use a lightly water dampened lint free cloth (microfibre is good) and, while you're manually spinning it [the rubber roller], with your finger, hold the cloth against it. Clean the pinch roller that way when you see any obvious deposits of oxide.

As for the metal capstan shaft, just above the rubber roller, clean it when it's not spinning 'cause you may get stuff wound into it. Clean it as you would the heads but make sure alcohol is squeezed out so that it doesn't drip. Look for oxide marks on those parts. You want them clean, mirror like.

NOTE: you may want to clean the rubber roller with caig rubber cleaner rbr but this is a bit tricky so ask if you're not sure how and what to do.

You could spray a burst of caig faderlube into the faders and work them back and forth.

For general cleaning of a dusty machine, soft brushes and compressed air works nice as does using a microfibre cloth and q-tips. I'd vacuum everything else other than the cassette compartment.

TDK SM tapes are excellent.

[rockgardenlove]

Sounds good, thanks. I can't find that rubber cleaner though, could somebody link me?
Also, I do have no idea what I'd want to do with it.

Thanks!

[cjacek]

faderlube for faders is here:

http://store.caig.com/s.nl;jsessioni...2&category=293

...and rubber cleaner is here:

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.179/.f

As your 424 is the fairly recent MKIII version, I'd only use the RBR if the pinch roller is unusually hard, glossy or slippery. Unlikely at this stage though. Just clean it with the cloth / water combo for now.

In the future, one inexpensive and simple way to apply the RBR, is to place a small amount on a corner of a rag and gently maneuver into turning the roller with your finger while holding the rag against it. Rubber should be as good as new. Wash you hands.

[rockgardenlove]

Wow, dunno how I missed the rubber cleaner. Thanks!
I'll order some lint free cloth (or is there some handy thing I'd have in my house I can scavenge some from?), and some fader lubricant.
And those tapes'll be here on Monday!

Thanks!