Vocal EQ on BR-900 CD

[gjackson]

I need some help using the EQ on my BR-900 CD. First off, I'm brand new at recording and don't know much about EQ or how it works. I'm trying to read whatever I can about it to learn more. I'm having problems getting a good sound out of my vocals, and I've read that you can do some things to get better sound out of vocal recordings. They are as follows:

1. Boost the EQ at 200 Hz to add fullness to the vocals
2. Boost the EQ at 5 kHz to add vocal presence

I've only had my BR-900 a few months, but I'm under the impression that I can boost or reduce one frequency, but not more than one (basically do only one of the above things that I mentioned instead of both of them).

Am I way off base on this, or can both of those things be accomplished? Any suggestions?

[Gorty]

Originally Posted by gjackson

I need some help using the EQ on my BR-900 CD. First off, I'm brand new at recording and don't know much about EQ or how it works. I'm trying to read whatever I can about it to learn more. I'm having problems getting a good sound out of my vocals, and I've read that you can do some things to get better sound out of vocal recordings. They are as follows:

1. Boost the EQ at 200 Hz to add fullness to the vocals
2. Boost the EQ at 5 kHz to add vocal presence

I've only had my BR-900 a few months, but I'm under the impression that I can boost or reduce one frequency, but not more than one (basically do only one of the above things that I mentioned instead of both of them).

Am I way off base on this, or can both of those things be accomplished? Any suggestions?

I have the BR1600 so I am not sure if the eq's are the same here but here goes.
When you press the EQ button you get a display of all your tracks and the settings for each track which will be LOW, MIDS, HIGHS. Using the selector dial or your selector buttons eg up/down buttons you can select the particular band you want to adjust. Another way is at the bottom of your screen when in the EQ section there should be little boxes that are labelled LOW, MID, HIGH. Push the button directly below either of these and a screen will be displayed that allows you to target a selected frequency of your choice and will allow you to boost or cut to your personall desire.

I hope I haven't confused you too much. Let me know how you get on!

Gorty!



P.S....Don't listen to what Starzz and True might say about me!

[the cool one]

Gorty only came here to cause trouble. Ignore him!!! He's supposed to be in detention with the other animals!!!

[Gorty]

Originally Posted by Starzz

Gorty only came here to cause trouble. Ignore him!!! He's supposed to be in detention with the other animals!!!

You must be the one Gorty was warning me about.

[Gorty]

Originally Posted by Boss Hogg

You must be the one Gorty was warning me about.

He is!!! That's him there, the one with the red horn thingy's!

[gjackson]

Gorty,
Thanks for the advice. The 1600 sounds fairly similar to the 900, however, I get the impression that the 1600 has what amounts to a 3-band equalizer (lows, mids, and highs) for each track, while the 900 has a 2-band equalizer (lows and highs) for each track. One more question...can you adjust the "Q" setting on the 900 or the 1600?

In the past, when I was experimenting with my vocal EQ (before I'd done any research on the subject), it seemed that the changes that I would make in the 500 Hz range would make the most differences in the vocals, so the only frequency that I would cut or boost would be the 500 Hz frequency. After reading some charts that I found on the internet yesterday, I learned that I could do better things with the vocals if I used the 200 Hz, 5 kHz, and 10 kHz frequencies.

Last night, I was able to boost my 200 Hz frequency, and I was able to boost one of the high frequencies, but I couldn't do both of the high frequencies. I guess in the future I'll have to choose the two frequency adjustments that seem to make the most difference, one in the low range and one in the high range. Does that make sense?

The chart I found on the internet yesterday was very helpful. I've tried to cut and paste it below:

FREQUENCY: USES:
50Hz 1. Increase to add more fullness to lowest frequency instruments like foot, toms, and the bass. Peak equalization with a 1.4 Q.
2. Reduce to decrease the "boom" of the bass and will increase overtones and the recognition of bass line in the mix. This is most often used on loud bass lines like rock. Shelf equalization.

100Hz 1. Increase to add a harder bass sound to lowest frequency instruments. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0 to 1.4..
2. Increase to add fullness to guitars, snare. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0..
3. Increase to add warmth to piano and horns. Peak Equalization. For piano use a Q of 1.0. With horn use a Q of 1.4..
4. Reduce to remove boom on guitars & increase clarity. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0 to 1.4..

200Hz 1. Increase to add fullness to vocals. Peak Equalization with a Q of 0.7 to 1.0..
2. Increase to add fullness to snare and guitar ( harder sound ). Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4.
3. Reduce to decrease muddiness of vocals or mid-range instruments. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.
4. Reduce to decrease gong sound of cymbals. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.

400Hz 1. Increase to add clarity to bass lines especially when speakers are at low volume. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.
2. Reduce to decrease "cardboard" sound of lower drums (foot and toms). Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4.
3. Reduce to decrease ambiance on cymbals. Peak Equalization with a Q of 0.7 to 1.0. Alternately try a shelf EQ with a 320 Hz frequency setting.

800Hz 1. Increase for clarity and "punch" of bass. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4.
2. Reduce to remove "cheap" sound of guitars. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.

1.5KHz 1. Increase for "clarity" and "pluck" of bass. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4..
2. Reduce to remove dullness of guitars. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.

3KHz 1. Increase for more "pluck" of bass. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4.
2. Increase for more attack of electric / acoustic guitar. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4.
3. Increase for more attack on low piano parts. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.
4. Increase for more clarity / hardness on voice. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.
5. Reduce to increase breathy, soft sound on background vocals. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.
6. Reduce to disguise out-of-tune vocals / guitars. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.
7. Increase for more attack on the snare or other drums. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4 to 2.8.

5KHz 1. Increase for vocal presence. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.
2. Increase low frequency drum attack ( foot / toms). Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4 to 2.8.
3. Increase for more "finger sound" on bass. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4.
4. Increase attack of piano, acoustic guitar and brightness on guitars (especially rock guitars). Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4.
5. Reduce to make background parts more distant. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.
6. Reduce to soften "thin" guitar. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.

7KHz 1. Increase to add attack on low frequency drums ( more metallic sound ). Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4 to 2.8.
2. Increase to add attack to percussion instruments. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4 to 2.8.
3. Increase on dull singer. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.
4. Increase for more "finger sound" on acoustic bass. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4.
5. Reduce to decrease "s" sound on singers. Peak Equalization with a Q of 2.8. Sweep frequency slightly (between 7 kHz and 8 kHz) to find the "exact" frequency of the S
6. Increase to add sharpness to synthesizers, rock guitars, acoustic guitar and piano. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0 to 1.4.

10KHz 1. Increase to brighten vocals. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.
2. Increase for "light brightness" in acoustic guitar and piano. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.
3. Increase for hardness on cymbals. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4.
4. Reduce to decrease "s" sound on singers. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4.

15KHz 1. Increase to brighten vocals (breath sound). Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.
2. Increase to brighten cymbals, string instruments and flutes. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.0.
3. Increase to make sampled synthesizer sound more real. Peak Equalization with a Q of 1.4 to 2.8.



I'd love to get more feedback from some of the more experienced EQ guys on this forum to see what typically works for them in the way of EQ settings. Thanks again for the advice!

[Gorty]

I have that very chart and it has helped me in some areas, particulary when trying to seperate the kick and the bass.
You can go through your EQ by selecting a frequency and rolling the boost and the cut and listen to the way it effects your recorded vocals. Do this to as many of the frequency bands as you can and you will get a good idea of which particular frequencies are the most responsive to the particular track you are working on.

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Action Jackson:

There are also some "compression" charts and suggestions for getting the vocal UP FRONT, if you want it that way. [Think of a Sinatra vocal for up front.]

You don't need to get too technical as some of the offered settings are easy to set up. The "nice compressor" setting on my RNC is very good for most tracks; however, when I found this suggestion for UP FRONT vocals, it was cool.

I don't think you have to really mess around too much with vocal EQ if the track is recorded on a decent mic and you don't drown the vocal with reverb. Personally, I like the Yamaha "STAGE" reverb but there are many other types of reverb to choose from. Trouble is, if you want to experiment, it takes time to keep re-doing the track; but, the time taken is wisely spent to get that clear and bright vocal track.

BTW: I'm wondering what the sound engineers are trying to do on some big time tv shows: CSI MIAMI for example. I watched the show last time out and the freaking music which is supposed to be background was about drowning out the words of the actors who are supposed to be HEARD. I can't figure that out as it is dominant in several other big time productions. Maybe someone out there in the business can explain that to me?

Happy summertime

Green Hornet

[gjackson]

Green Hornet,
I'm not real familiar with any compression features on my BR-900. I'm sure there are many features that I'm not familiar with, though, since I'm just beginning. I know that some of the vocal effects are called...VocalComp1, VocalComp2, etc. Also, some of the "mastering" tool patches have the word "Comp" in them, so I'm assuming there are some compression options out there. I just don't know how to apply compression to my tracks. The only Loop Effects that I'm aware of are Reverb, Chorus, Doubling, and Delay.

I'm still having problems getting my vocals to sound right, without even considering how they sound in the mix. They seem too bright and slightly harsh sounding. I've tried to use EQ to add more low (200Hz), but it didn't seem to help very much. Do I need to experiment with more of the vocal effects that I haven't used, yet?

Most of the vocal recording that I've done has been with one of the 40 or so vocal effects that are available on the machine. Should I consider recording some tracks with no vocal effect at all?

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Jackson:

I think you might try a series of vocal tests, like just singing a few bars of a song.

But, I might try the first one using NONE of the vocal effect patches FIRST and see if you get a natural sound; you might just turn on a little reverb to give you some presence.

If I read you right and you are compressing the compression, that might be trouble.

I usually run my vocals from the mic to my Grace 101 preamp, and from there into my 2816; however, I sometimes run the vocal from the preamp into the RNC compressor and then into the 2816.

When I mix the tracks I do not use the compressor in the 2816 for the vocal.

Learning is trial and error. BTW: Don't you have a manual for your 900?

Again, your 900 is different than my DAW; however, the steps and views and "words terms" may be slightly different but these boxes all work the same way; some work better and, naturally, they cost more.

I'm thinking of buying a 1600 as a back up.

Every time you turn on your machine, you will learn something.

Green Hornet

[Frambo]

Hey there gjackson, what mic are you using?
The mic can make a big difference. A good condensor will be best but then again if you find a dynamic mic that suits your voice then use it.
It can be frustrating trying to fix the eq if the original recording is not quite right. I was using an AKG C1000s for vocals and for acoustic guitar and found it pretty good considering its not the most expensive one out there. I traded it in on a Rode NT2a which I'm finding really clear and crisp but too sibilant on my vocals. I've been trying to salvage the vocal tracks by pulling out 7khz and compressing more than I'd like. I still learning how to get the best out of the Rode. I've got a BR1600 and there are some patches in there with de-essing which helps. Then at mixdown stage I eq and compress using the loop effects.I might have to go back to the C1000 since I know it suits my voice. That eq chart you've got is helpful.
If you can borrow/hire a few mics it would be worth a comparison.
If you've got a Q function you can closely target the frequency you want to boost or cut without pulling out any nearby frequencies as much ~ handy if you sweep through and identify the frequency that might be a problem or might help the track cut through.
How was your input gain when you recorded the vocal? Did you bring it up to the point that the clip light flashes then back it off? Keep in mind that if you add eq at the input stage, it could add gain and cause distortion. The harshness you mention could be a touch of distortion, or it could be the mic. or could be the room. The room I'm using was really bright and harsh but I've hung a few blankets and curtains etc on the walls and windows to deaden and soften the sound and that made a big difference.
At mixdown I use a subtle delay set to be in sync with the tempo of the song e.g. to repeat with the 1/4 or 1/2 notes. That seems to smooth it out a bit. Unless its for a special effect I try to keep the delay and reverb subtle so that you dont really notice they're on until you've turned them off.
If anyone has any good compression suggestions for vocals I'm keen to see how you set them ~ good compression is an art form.

[gjackson]

Gentlemen,
I've tried some different things and have gotten better vocal sounds out of my unit. Frambo, I'm using an Audio Technica AT3035 condenser mic. Instead of recording with the standard vocal effects and adjusting the EQ in the mix, I've taken one of the standard vocal effects and modified that effect, changing the EQ's within that effect. One of the "tricks of the trade" that I read about is changing the "Q" setting with the EQ. The EQ feature on my unit doesn't allow me to adjust the Q, but, I did find that I can go in and edit the EQ within any particular vocal effect, and I can change the Q setting that way.

This has taken some of the harshness out of my vocal sound. Also, I've been singing real close to the mic (about an inch as opposed to about 4 or 5 inches), and that has improved the quality of my sound a good bit. Even with all of the "improvements" that I've been able to make, I probably still have a long way to go to get to where I need to be. Also, I feel like I still have a lot to learn about using EQ to my advantage.

Thanks to all of you for your comments and suggestions.