What do you expect from your preamp?

[PhilGood]

Should it warm things up?

Add color?

Not add color?

Be transparent?

Not need EQ?

Low noise?

What is most important?

Are preamps MORE important that the mics you use? Can a good preamp make a mediocre mic sound good? I guess I've never focused on the importance of preamps.

The list of preamps for my budget I am looking to add may be any of these:

M-Audio DMP3
Joe Meek 3Q
Audio Buddy
Behringer mic2200 (and upgrade the op-amps)
Behringer T1953 (and upgrade the op-amps)


Preamps I already have:

Symetrix SX202
Presonus BlueTube
Bellari MP110 (op-amps modified)
Bellari MP105 (op-amps modified)
Joe Meek VC 6
Behringer Ultragain 2000

What should I be looking for that has quality at a price under $250?

I have exhausted myself on mics and have literally built a great selection, but it seems I'm missing something sound-wise. I need WARM, detail and clean!

Any suggestions?

How important are preamps in relation to quality mics? I don't wanna have to shell out a couple grand for a decent sound. Maybe preamps will be my next obsession.

Discuss.

[hoops]

Should it warm things up?

Add color?

Not add color?

Be transparent?

Not need EQ?

Low noise?

All of the above. It depends on the application. I sometimes I want some color in my tone. Sometimes noise can be a cool effect. Why limit yourself.

Are preamps MORE important that the mics you use? Can a good preamp make a mediocre mic sound good?

no

[travelin travis]

you could build your preamps too and not have to spend an arm and a leg. you'd probably be better off than spending money on those in your list. i'm sure you've been to groupdiy.

dmp3 is clean, nothing special there. to be honest, i don't like it that much. audio buddy is a crappier version of the same thing. your symetrix probably has that ground covered. i suspect the behringer 2200 is similar to the rest of the starved plate preamps. although, i do like me some crappy art tubemp. don't know why. i think you're looking for something with some iron in it. i haven't gotten my grubby hands on any good preamps yet. i can only imagine that the good stuff carries all the cliches: warm, round, clarity, depth, punch, etc.

i'll find out one of these years.

Originally Posted by PhilGood

How important are preamps in relation to quality mics?

I asked someone here that very question not long ago. He said it's mostly in the mikes. I took it as preamps being the icing on the cake.

[chessrock]

I kinda' want it to bring my mic up to line level.

.

[Robert D]

My take, FWIW

Should it warm things up? depends on mic, source, and song.

Add color? sometimes

Not add color? sometimes

Be transparent? Most of the time

Not need EQ? Always the goal, more a function of mic and placement

Low noise? Absolutely

What is most important? That it supports the feel I'm after on a track, in conjunction with the mic and the placement.

Are preamps MORE important that the mics you use? No, assuming decent quality.

Can a good preamp make a mediocre mic sound good? It can help, but GIGO fully applies.


In order of importance: Source & Room / Mic & Placement / Preamp

I find that the pres I like to use on vocals and the pres I like to use on acoustic instruments are different, the former wanting some color and the later wanting to be very clean.

[kojdogg]

I expect unconditional love from my pres.
Phil-- with your tech skillz, perhaps you could get a raw pm1000 channel (or 2) with the input and output transformers and rack them yourself, or build a "green pre"?

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by chessrock

I kinda' want it to bring my mic up to line level.

.

Hmmm... interesting point!

So I guess a $100 preamp can do exactly the same as a $1700 preamp and there'd be no difference. Thanks for clearing that up! Very useful.

Behringer it is!

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by kojdogg

I expect unconditional love from my pres.
Phil-- with your tech skillz, perhaps you could get a raw pm1000 channel (or 2) with the input and output transformers and rack them yourself, or build a "green pre"?

I thought about doing the green pre. I think the last thing I want to do right now is go shopping for parts and then sit for hours stuffing a board. I do enough of that now. I really just want to throw it in the rack and turn it on.

[Fishmed]

The best mic pres have gotten to use are John Hardy and the mic pres that were in a MCI board I used to have. The John Hardy was heads above the MCI, but the MCI did give some punch and detail to the recordings. The JH had real good depth in addition to being punchy and clean.

I once owned a Hill board to and it had nice warm mic pres to it too, but when I used that board I had a great A/D converter that I am sure made a big impact on my signal too.

The Presonus M-80 is nice and clean, but not as warm as the other mic pres listed above.

The Mackie pres on the original 1604 mixers were fairly clean, but nothing to write home about. They never had the punch as the ones listed above.

I though the first version of the Roland VS880 did ok job getting the mic to line level, but the unit as a whole was a little dirty sounding to me.

The mic pres on my Behringer DDX-3216 seem a bit dull and lifeless. (I do like most of the other features the board has to offer.)

The mic pres on the Alesis 12R seem lifeless too, but they will get the mic to line level fine.

I found the KORG 168RC to have real sterile mic pres; very cold sounding; actually the whole board was that way. I had to ditch it as quick as I could.

Since I have gone though my share of mic pres, having gone up the ladder and back down, I have been able to REALLY notice how much a great mic pre impacts the recordings. As I start the process of going back up, the mic pres I will be after must have a lot of headroom and detail/ depth. I would like to eventually get a variety of pres to have a range of “colors” to work with. To get started I, will go after the cleaner ones and rely on my mics to give me the extra flavor I am after.

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by Fishmed_Returns

The best mic pres have gotten to use are John Hardy and the mic pres that were in a MCI board I used to have. The John Hardy was heads above the MCI, but the MCI did give some punch and detail to the recordings. The JH had real good depth in addition to being punchy and clean.

I once owned a Hill board to and it had nice warm mic pres to it too, but when I used that board I had a great A/D converter that I am sure made a big impact on my signal too.

The Presonus M-80 is nice and clean, but not as warm as the other mic pres listed above.

The Mackie pres on the original 1604 mixers were fairly clean, but nothing to write home about. They never had the punch as the ones listed above.

I though the first version of the Roland VS880 did ok job getting the mic to line level, but the unit as a whole was a little dirty sounding to me.

The mic pres on my Behringer DDX-3216 seem a bit dull and lifeless. (I do like most of the other features the board has to offer.)

The mic pres on the Alesis 12R seem lifeless too, but they will get the mic to line level fine.

I found the KORG 168RC to have real sterile mic pres; very cold sounding; actually the whole board was that way. I had to ditch it as quick as I could.

Since I have gone though my share of mic pres, having gone up the ladder and back down, I have been able to REALLY notice how much a great mic pre impacts the recordings. As I start the process of going back up, the mic pres I will be after must have a lot of headroom and detail/ depth. I would like to eventually get a variety of pres to have a range of “colors” to work with. To get started I, will go after the cleaner ones and rely on my mics to give me the extra flavor I am after.

Now THAT's a good post!

Thank you!

[RightOnMusic]

there is a WORLD of difference between when i plug my AT3035 into the stock preamps on my 828, and when i plug it into my neve. in my experience, the quality of the preamp and the quality of the mic are of equal importance. of course the mic is doing the real work in the equation, but a nicer preamp is going to help realize the full potential of the microphone and different types of preamps will accentuate different characteristics of the mic.

[Supercreep]

You're not going to find much in that price range with the characteristics you're asking for.

Maybe a DIY for about twice as much per channel.

Hamptone or SCA perhaps?

[scrubs]

Originally Posted by PhilGood

What do you expect from your preamp?

It would be nice if that lazy bastard would get a real job and start contributing to the rent around here. He's so frickin concerned with making things louder that he doesn't really bother to do any housework. If I really get on him about how I like things clean, he just seems to get dirtier. And, don't even get me started about his purported mystical "phantom powers."

[mikeyp62]

So, you've got quite an assortment of cheap preamps, and you want to buy another cheap preamp to fill the void left by the others? Why not either sell some of the ones you have, or save your money, until you can afford a preamp that actually makes a difference. I used to have a room full of pretty looking cheap gear, until I realized that one pacifica is going to sound better than 10 Bluetubes. So I started selling and saving, and I'm much happier with my toys now.

[Fishmed]

Originally Posted by mikeyp62

So, you've got quite an assortment of cheap preamps, and you want to buy another cheap preamp to fill the void left by the others? Why not either sell some of the ones you have, or save your money, until you can afford a preamp that actually makes a difference. I used to have a room full of pretty looking cheap gear, until I realized that one pacifica is going to sound better than 10 Bluetubes. So I started selling and saving, and I'm much happier with my toys now.

I agree. Keep what you like and to get you by for now, sell everything else, and save up for something really nice.

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by mikeyp62

So, you've got quite an assortment of cheap preamps, and you want to buy another cheap preamp to fill the void left by the others? Why not either sell some of the ones you have, or save your money, until you can afford a preamp that actually makes a difference. I used to have a room full of pretty looking cheap gear, until I realized that one pacifica is going to sound better than 10 Bluetubes. So I started selling and saving, and I'm much happier with my toys now.

Because I'd need about 10 Pacificas.

I have a rather large drum kit.

The Symetrix is a pretty respected mid level pre, so I'm looking for something in that range.

I'm definitely going to save up for the big main vocal preamp, but my needs right now are to fill channels.

[Fishmed]

Originally Posted by PhilGood

Because I'd need about 10 Pacificas.

I have a rather large drum kit.

The Symetrix is a pretty respected mid level pre, so I'm looking for something in that range.

I'm definitely going to save up for the big main vocal preamp, but my needs right now are to fill channels.

The M-80 in the ad section is a good buy, even after the repair that is needed.

[Innovations]

Originally Posted by chessrock

I kinda' want it to bring my mic up to line level.

.

My answer too. If you need your preamp to add something that your mic isn't doing are you using the right instrument/mic/positioning?

[Fishmed]

Originally Posted by Innovations

My answer too. If you need your preamp to add something that your mic isn't doing are you using the right instrument/mic/positioning?

I used to think that myself, but having left everything the same and just changing the mic pre's, I saw a BIG difference in quality. That is why I am trying to get better mic pre's back into my studio.

There is just a certain amount of “presence” that the mic pre brings to the signal chain that cannot be reproduced.

Can you just plug a guitar into your mixer and expect it to sound like $1000+ amp/4-12 stack later in the signal chain?

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by Innovations

My answer too. If you need your preamp to add something that your mic isn't doing are you using the right instrument/mic/positioning?

Well, I guess what I'm trying to ascertain is "What are the qualities a really good preamp possesses that are not typically found in less expensive pres? What are the traits? What does it do to the sound and what should I be looking for?".

Not to put too fine a point on it.

[mikeyp62]

Originally Posted by PhilGood

Because I'd need about 10 Pacificas.

I have a rather large drum kit.

The Symetrix is a pretty respected mid level pre, so I'm looking for something in that range.

I'm definitely going to save up for the big main vocal preamp, but my needs right now are to fill channels.

Then rob a bank and get 10 pacificas. I'll be at your studio every day with pizza.

Or get an API 3124. Four great pres at a mid-level price.

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by mikeyp62

Then rob a bank and get 10 pacificas. I'll be at your studio every day with pizza.

Or get an API 3124. Four great pres at a mid-level price.

Ugh. I've had pizza 3 days this week.

I'm probably going to go jogging until midnight!

[Fishmed]

Originally Posted by PhilGood

Well, I guess what I'm trying to ascertain is "What are the qualities a really good preamp possesses that are not typically found in less expensive pres? What are the traits? What does it do to the sound and what should I be looking for?".

Not to put too fine a point on it.

I would have to say “presence”; which to me is the depth or roundness it gives to the source that is being recorded. As you listen to the recordings, you feel like you can actually reach out and "grab" the instruments you are listening to. The lower ended mic pre's seem to appear flat with little to no depth. It is something you have to really experience for yourself.

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by PhilGood

Well, I guess what I'm trying to ascertain is "What are the qualities a really good preamp possesses that are not typically found in less expensive pres? What are the traits? What does it do to the sound and what should I be looking for?".

Well, for starters, it shouldn't suck. Once you get past that, the rest is icing.

Don't expect miracles. You might hear some very subtle improvements in clarity, noise level, frequency response and overall smoothness.

Or you might not.

So much of this stuff depends on the rest of your signal chain, your recording abilities, and the context of how everything is used. But don't kid yourself in to thinking the mic pre is going to be some sort of holy grail or missing link in your signal chain that can push your recordings over the hump. It really doesn't work that way.

.

[RightOnMusic]

Originally Posted by Fishmed_Returns

I would have to say “presence”; which to me is the depth or roundness it gives to the source that is being recorded. As you listen to the recordings, you feel like you can actually reach out and "grab" the instruments you are listening to. The lower ended mic pre's seem to appear flat with little to no depth. It is something you have to really experience for yourself.

exactly the experience i had last night plugging in that neve for the first time. for me, a good preamp allows every good quality of your mic and source to shine. lower end preamps can mask a lot of the good characteristics of the mic.