live mixer group bus question

[zed32]

i have a really stupid question to ask regarding a Yamaha MG24/14FX mixer for live sound (although it probably applies to any mixer i assume).

anyway, the mixer has 4 Group buses, and each channel has only 2 buttons for sending to groups, a 1-2 button and a 3-4 button. so does this mean that by pressing the 1-2 button, it sends to both group 1 and 2? do groups 1 and 2 then act like an L and R channel, or are they both identical? i'm not sure how this thing works.

does this mean that each group bus is a mono channel? if so, then it's really only 2 groups i guess, and i would have to raise the 1 and 2 faders to the same levels to keep balance, right? maybe someone can help me out with a clear explanation of how this works...

thanks.


i'm just used to using Group tracks on my computer software that act as a single stereo channel...

[cusebassman]

I have the MG32, and I've honestly never used the group outs, but as far as I can tell, you are correct - perhaps the idea is that you can send, let's say, Channel 8 to Groups 1 and 2, and then groupds 1 and 2 go to different places, respectively.

Why you would want to do that, I don't know. I use the aux sends for pretty much everything I do, so as to avoid this problem.

[RawDepth]

Originally Posted by zed32

i have a really stupid question to ask regarding a Yamaha MG24/14FX mixer for live sound (although it probably applies to any mixer i assume).

anyway, the mixer has 4 Group buses, and each channel has only 2 buttons for sending to groups, a 1-2 button and a 3-4 button. so does this mean that by pressing the 1-2 button, it sends to both group 1 and 2? do groups 1 and 2 then act like an L and R channel, or are they both identical? i'm not sure how this thing works.

does this mean that each group bus is a mono channel? if so, then it's really only 2 groups i guess, and i would have to raise the 1 and 2 faders to the same levels to keep balance, right? maybe someone can help me out with a clear explanation of how this works...

thanks.


i'm just used to using Group tracks on my computer software that act as a single stereo channel...

No, they are indeed four seperate group channels. You also need to use the channel PAN to help decide which group the signal goes to.

Take mixer channel one for example. If you want it to go to Group 1, then press the 1-2 button and then pan channel one to hard left. All of channel one will go to Group one and none to Group two.

If you swing the PAN knob to hard right, all of channel one goes to Group 2 only. PAN center sends equal amounts of channel one to both Groups 1 and 2.

Furthermore, the Groups can probably be Panned to send them to either Left Master or Right Master.

Good enough?

RawDepth

[cusebassman]

Well, yes, you can in fact use the pan knob on the mixer channels to route to the proper group, but then you are severely limited... if you are running a live rig and for some reason have a stereo PA setup, and also want to send, sya, channel 1, to Group 1 to go out to the first track of a 4-track recorder, you have to pan hard left, but then the PA is only playing that track out the left side.

I know you were just explaining how the thing actually works, and not really discussing whether its actually a good way to design the board, but yeah, seems like an odd way to lay the thing out. Perhaps there is some proven use for it in this regard, but Im not seein one.

[zed32]

Originally Posted by RawDepth

No, they are indeed four seperate group channels. You also need to use the channel PAN to help decide which group the signal goes to.

Take mixer channel one for example. If you want it to go to Group 1, then press the 1-2 button and then pan channel one to hard left. All of channel one will go to Group one and none to Group two.

If you swing the PAN knob to hard right, all of channel one goes to Group 2 only. PAN center sends equal amounts of channel one to both Groups 1 and 2.

Furthermore, the Groups can probably be Panned to send them to either Left Master or Right Master.

Good enough?

RawDepth

good enough indeed, thanks!

[RawDepth]

Originally Posted by cusebassman

Well, yes, you can in fact use the pan knob on the mixer channels to route to the proper group, but then you are severely limited... if you are running a live rig and for some reason have a stereo PA setup, and also want to send, sya, channel 1, to Group 1 to go out to the first track of a 4-track recorder, you have to pan hard left, but then the PA is only playing that track out the left side.

I know you were just explaining how the thing actually works, and not really discussing whether its actually a good way to design the board, but yeah, seems like an odd way to lay the thing out. Perhaps there is some proven use for it in this regard, but Im not seein one.

Since this is a "Live" mixer design, the intension of the Groups are not so much to create a stereo mix but instead to sub-group "like" instruments together. You can group say, all the drums and percussion to group 1, all stringed instruments to group 2, vocals to 3, etc. That gives you the ability to turn up or down any entire group all at one fader.

Example: There may be a need at some point in the act to lower all instruments except vocals, then fade them back in again. It would be far too cumbersome to fade down 8 or 10 or maybe even 20 channels separately.

Another use might be to insert one single effect (or maybe compression,) onto an entire group of instruments or vocals.

Even though you pan channel one hard left to get to group 1, it can still go to the main channels as left, right, or both for a stereo mix.

[LemonTree]

it's a stereo thing

to send one chanel to a seperate groupe you'd press the 1-2 group button and hard pan full left for group 1 or hard right for group 2

another way to think of it is if you have all your drumkit on the L-R buss panned the way you want them you can send to 1-2 as a stereo group and bring up both group faders to give you the same stereo image...very usefull if you want to add compression to the full drum mix