Quick Soft Syth Question

[RandyW]

I'm still messing around with soft syths, stuff that came with Sonar 6 and some of the freebie pgms at this time. I like the sounds but can't deal with the delay or should I say latency. Is there a card available that will rid me of these problems or perhaps some better disk streaming plugs so I don't have to spend 1 to 2 grand on a hardware module.

How do you midi gurus deal with this? do you just compensate for the delay by sliding your track up a couple ms? Or is there something better I'm using 3 KB sources an Alesis QS8, and Korg SP-250 and also an Edirol PCRM50 or something like that. I like using the Edirol I don't have to keep jumping around but I know just enought to get is set to a channel and patch and record a midi track then bounce it to an audio. That leaves me with several knobs and sliiders I'll probably or should I say hopefully never have to use.

[dirtythermos]

You need to lower your latency. Have you played with the "Buffer Size" slider in "Audio" under the "Options" menu? You want to set this as low as your computer can go (without dropouts) when tracking with softsynths. Mine is at 5.8ms.

[brzilian]

Originally Posted by RandyW

I'm still messing around with soft syths, stuff that came with Sonar 6 and some of the freebie pgms at this time. I like the sounds but can't deal with the delay or should I say latency. Is there a card available that will rid me of these problems or perhaps some better disk streaming plugs so I don't have to spend 1 to 2 grand on a hardware module.

How do you midi gurus deal with this? do you just compensate for the delay by sliding your track up a couple ms? Or is there something better I'm using 3 KB sources an Alesis QS8, and Korg SP-250 and also an Edirol PCRM50 or something like that. I like using the Edirol I don't have to keep jumping around but I know just enought to get is set to a channel and patch and record a midi track then bounce it to an audio. That leaves me with several knobs and sliiders I'll probably or should I say hopefully never have to use.

Sounds like you're trying to use an onboard audio or SoundBlaster card.

Spend $100 and get a real recording card like the M-Audio Audiophile and latency will be a non-issue.

[RandyW]

I'm using a Motu 828MKII FW audio interface on a Athlon 64 x2 4600 processor, 2- 320GBHDs and 4GB of RAM on a 32bit Vista OS. On board audio is disabled in CMOS.

I have my buffers set at 256 and am recording at 44.1Khz at 16bit. I believe the Motu commicates with Sonar at 24bits though.

Dirtythermos, what is your buffer sitting? I need my buffers a 256 when recording a lot of tracks or I get drop outs. I suppose I could try changing to a lower setting for softsynths. So you are saying you get almost no delay when hitting a key and hear the actual note.????

I have another computer with 2 delta1010lt's I know that one will let me get down to 5.8ms but I have never tryed softsynths on it. I may give that one a shot over the weekend.

Thanks for the input

[RandyW]

Whoops just went down and double checked my latency it had mysteriously creeped up to 92ms. I ran wave profiler and now have 5.3ms at 4800Khz and 16bit. I tested with about 12 tracks of playback with several effects real quick with no drop outs. I'll try some soft synths on it tomarrow and see how it sounds.

[dirtythermos]

Originally Posted by RandyW

Dirtythermos, what is your buffer sitting? I need my buffers a 256 when recording a lot of tracks or I get drop outs. I suppose I could try changing to a lower setting for softsynths. So you are saying you get almost no delay when hitting a key and hear the actual note.????

My I/O Buffer Size (Advanced Tab) is 256.

My Buffers in Playback Queue (General Tab) is 4.

My Buffer Size (Slider in General Tab) is 5.8 msec for an "Effective latency at 44kHz/stereo: 17.4msec"

And yes, the delay between hitting a key and hearing the note is imperceptible. It is just like playing a hardware synth.

Oh, and my computer is a homebrew Athalon XP2 4400+ w/ 2GB of RAM running WinXP x64 Edition with 64-bit Sonar 6 Studio. Specs here.

[RandyW]

Dirty, did you notice any huge benefits from going to 64bit. That is what I want to do as soon as they get a few of the bugs worked out of Vista. From what I've heard at the Sonar forums it don't look like the 64 bit Vista does anything for you.

[anppilot]

Originally Posted by RandyW

How do you midi gurus deal with this?

I just dont use them - BECAUSE of just that... latency.

That is why I use a:

Access Virus A

Alesis QSR
Alesis DM-PRO (W/HART DYNAMICS DRUM KIT)

ENSONIQ MR-RACK

Korg Triton Rack
Korg M1R Rack
KORG WAVESTATION SR

Roland Fantom XR
Roland JV-1080
Roland JD-990
Roland JP-8080
Roland XP-30
Roland JW-50
Roland MC-303

Yamaha Motif RackES
Yamaha TX81Z
Yamaha TX802
Yamaha FB-01

No soft synths for me

I have tried a few of them in the past

Not for this guy.

[brzilian]

Originally Posted by anppilot

I just dont use them - BECAUSE of just that... latency.

Korg M1R Rack
KORG WAVESTATION SR

Yamaha TX81Z
Yamaha TX802
Yamaha FB-01

No soft synths for me

I have tried a few of them in the past

Not for this guy.

I replaced all those with softsynths some time ago (FM7, FM8 and Korg Legacy Collection - Digital Edition). They all sound much better than the originals and add quite a bit of additional functionality (more operators, more polyphony, resonant filters, etc...).

Haven't had a single issue - even when running them on a moderately powered laptop connected to a Mackie Onyx with Firewire card.

[Vadim]

Originally Posted by anppilot

I just dont use them - BECAUSE of just that... latency.

That is why I use a:

Access Virus A

Alesis QSR
Alesis DM-PRO (W/HART DYNAMICS DRUM KIT)

ENSONIQ MR-RACK

Korg Triton Rack
Korg M1R Rack
KORG WAVESTATION SR

Roland Fantom XR
Roland JV-1080
Roland JD-990
Roland JP-8080
Roland XP-30
Roland JW-50
Roland MC-303

Yamaha Motif RackES
Yamaha TX81Z
Yamaha TX802
Yamaha FB-01

No soft synths for me

I have tried a few of them in the past

Not for this guy.

Wow, Man! If I'd had your rack the only thing i would add id TR-Rack (korg Trinity Rack).
I like real stuff better than virtual also, it's better to control stuff with buttons and stuff, rather than a mouse. And it sounds better. Yes, there are some soft synths that sounds good (like orchestral Samples), but when you put those sounds together on a mix, it sounds "what the.....?".

Also, what sequencer do you use?

[jscotty]

I agree. I don't have latency issues with my soft synths either but I prefer the outboard stuff because I can actually put my hand on the specific buttons or knobs as necessary. I run the rack stuff through an analog mixer so that I can gently tweak the volume levels and turn an EQ knob if needed. Its very hard to do inside of the PC when you have other things up on the screen. Right now my setup has 3 monitors and I STILL don't have enough screen space!

[DavidK]

All hail hardware synths.

[RandyW]

Well since correcting the latency my soft synths seem to be running fine.
I give it a real test this weekend. It's odd I didn't notice it changing before. But I've done alot of tweaking between Vista and Sonar6 and the wave profiler must have make some changes on me.
I'd love the have a rack full of hardware synths but between guitars amps and recording hardware my sources are limited. My next snth will be a rolad GR-20 for the new Carvin NS1 guitar.