Recording 'real' music

[popstar]

Hi. I havent seen many posts on recording 'real' music, acoustic drums, guitars etc so I thought it was time to discuss some new techniques. We just finished our first home recorded EP and I would appreciate some feedback on the results. Check 'em out at http://www.zerotext.co.uk/audio.htm

PS

[Prism]

Finally! Someone who knows there's more to music than the synth this and the MIDI that!
This is just what I strive for - real music. Much of my favorite music comes from the 60s and 70s, and I think a lot of recordings from that era still sound better than a lot of stuff that they're cranking out today. They're so much more rich and spacious. I'd like to see a comeback of techniques that generated so many of those incredible recordings. Anyhow, I'll check out your page and get back to you.

Isaiah

[Gidge]

Popstar, you need to get your head out of your ass, or Prisms ass, wherever it is...there is tons of "real" music on this site and discussion of it....check out the MP3 Mixing Clinic to find many many examples...have a great day...

[Prism]

Take it easy, fellah... popstar is new here. I only think it's in the interest of courtesy to give him a somewhat dignified welcoming. And I'm still with ya, popstar. Gotta love the sound of a real guitar, piano, violin, drums.. it's all good. Nobody made any judgments on the folks here -- whether they know what "real" music is or not, but since we've got a new guy on our hands, he probably hasn't had as much looking around as us. KnowwhatImean?

Peace out,

Isaiah

[ametth]

I would love to hear your 'real' music..but the links dont work. try again.

[Track Rat]

Sorry popstar, no tunes. The link don't work. Too bad. I was really needin some "real" music.

[MISTERQCUE]

Regardless whether a musician uses synths,drum-machine,acoustic-git,tambourines,toilet-bowls,a turn-table (Is a DJ a Musician? ),a trumpet,etc. if it produces any of the 3 basic ingredients of music,(Melody,Harmony and Rhythm) it's all REAL music! It may not be music YOU like,
but still,REAL music.

[Gidge]

Yo Q-Dawg, great point....hopefully this Popstar guy was just drive-by posting and we wont hear from him again....I myself use Fruity Loops for drums with some decent samples and MIDI whenever i need strings, horns, etc....And Prism, I deal with assholes all day at work and it takes away every bit of "courtesy" I have....I don't "owe" anybody anything....

[popstar]

Wow! You lot need to chill out a bit, I was only trying to differentiate between 'real' and 'synthesized' music, didn't mean to ruffle any feathers! Sorry the links don't work, I'll try and sort em out for y'all.

PS

[Gidge]

Oh PopTart, I'm sorry...I had you all wrong...I'll make it up to you by helping you "differentiate" your ass from a hole in the ground....

[MISTERQCUE]

Popstar, welcome!
What is the difference between a musician who plays midi-supported and synth songs and 1 who plays the acoustic gits
and drums? They're both musicians playing music. I truly appreciate the ways an individual(like me)who does'nt always
have access to other band-mates all the time(like me) who can produce music(jazz,rock,funk,rap(?)punk(?),country)by using,"canned drums"(drum machines),synths,keyboards,bass and gits and modules to produce brass efx,strings etc. Just the same as listening and enjoying a full band complete with live drummer,gits etc. Music is to be enjoyed by all no-matter how it was made. A person adept in make others feel, enjoy and inspire passion by using a synth is making just as much "REAL" music as an individual who plays a awe-inspiring solo on an acoustic guitar.
Peace
Mr.Q.

(Thx Gidge...."Who let the DAWGS Out!!!"

[Vurt]

Originally posted by Gidge
I deal with assholes all day at work

And apparently it's contagious.

[Sound Cracker]

Well popstar, I for one would really like to hear for once some mp3's on the internet of songs where "real" intruments are involved.

It is disheartening mostly some would dish out advice on what a good "drum" mic might be, yet, they usually don't have any "real" drums in their recordings. It is one thing to tell someone to use a 57 on a guitar cabinet, yet, everyone seems to be using POD's! It is a shame that more aspiring string players and horn players don't get called in to play those parts with "real" instruments, because you can tell a synth patch in a second.

I think where you may run into a practical problem popstar with your request is that many here are dudes that have a little recording setup in a bedroom, and for the most part, record everything themselves. Certainly nothing wrong with that, but, you are not going to hear a lot of "real" instruments with their mp3's, usually just their instrument of expertise.

I have no rights right now to post any music that I have worked on with my past clients, but I do have some sessions coming up that don't have contracts yet where I might be able to talk them into allowing me to upload some mp3's. Check back around in a month. I am certainly one that prefers to record real instruments, and to use as little sequencing and sampled sounds as possible. Who needs to when you have access to the facilities to record real instruments, and the talent pool to draw from?

Boy, some of you here maybe need to read a bit closer, and maybe not assume the worse when certain language is used in a post. Maybe popstar is just looking for a little inspiration in recording by hearing some stuff where "real" instruments were used. I didn't pick up on any "snobbish" tone in his original post, yet most seemed to have responded like there was. I left a couple other bulletin boards because of this same kind of stuff. This place has seemed civil enough so far until I read this thread. I sure hope this isn't the norm around here. That would be a shame to come to a place where people don't inquire FIRST as to someones intention when potentially confrontational language is used in a post. I am thinking that true snobbish asshole would have posted something like "All these mp3's I hear around here are really lame sounding because they don't use real instruments. Is anybody not lame and using real instruments?". But that is not what was originally posted at all.

Shoot first ask questions later? Guilty until proven innocent? Contempt prior to investigation?

Abe had a famous saying. "Better to remain silent and thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt". Maybe I am the fool here eh? I doubt it.

Peace.

[Wide Awake]

The way I read it popstar was probably refering to "acoustic" instruments and just used the wrong term.

From the mp3's I've heard most musicians on this site are playing with a group and not writing and recording in solitude. I actually do both because I'm retired and I write/record when my friends are at work. I also split my time between acoustic guitars and percussion, and a huge MIDI set-up, electric guitar, trumpet, and bass. I don't see one as being more valid and "real". It's all about emotion, melody, rhythm, creativity, composition, and art.

When the pianoforte was invented it wasn't considered a valid instrument and took a long time to gain acceptance. Same with the electric guitar. Now they are staples of modern music. Maybe someday synthesizers and high-tech toys will be as equally revered.

I just think someone with your experience Sound Cracker, shouldn't be using the term real instruments. I think acoustic instruments is more valid. Aren't you the one who said the Sholz Rockman sounded more like a real preamp than todays amp modelers ? You lost some major credibility with that remark. Are you sure you don't want to re-think that one ?

By the way, I don't know why everyone loves the SM57 for guitars, the SM58 is the bomb.



[Edited by Wide Awake on 02-17-2001 at 20:10]

[Sound Cracker]

To each their own.

I have yet to hear a tone module produce nuance in color that a real instrument will. With only 127 possible volocity settings available for sequenced material, I doubt I will hear anything soon that will capture it!

By the way, you should really re-read my post in on that other topic about modeling. There is a nuance in what I said that you missed, at least in my mind. The Rockman was "modeled" after a heavily modified amplifier that Tom preferred. It sounds much closer to that amp then any of the modeling units I have heard. So, while it may only do one sound, it does it very accurately. Maybe Line 6 should hire him to design their electronics! Now that would be something.

I fear that what is missing in many modern recordings, home recordist and professionals alike, is uniqueness in tone. Everyone uses the same crap! Some of that crap is very capable in very experienced hands, but THAT is the problem. Many just don't have the experience working with nice sounding gear and real instruments to make subjective decisions concerning stuff that is made to emulate it. Thus, the full potential of the "phoney" sound is not usually realized by many. Knowing the limitations of tone modules is really only possible if you have pretty good real life experience with the "real thing" to compare to. Do you follow where I am going with this?

I am not trying to be snobbish or elitest when I say this, but until one has worked with quality gear and sounds, they are going to have a hard time replicating those sounds with lesser gear. You just really need a firm idea of what actually sounds "good" before you can work with equipment that is not what is normally used for "good" and make it sound "good".

By the way, I don't seek your approval in my preferences, ideas, or opinions. I have way too much experience in audio to ever have to "reconsider" anything I have to say about it. You are free to disagree, post your disagreement, call me nasty names, question my "knowledge". I may or may not argue the point with you. But, be assured that my preferences come from my experiences, and I know what I like. Sometime soon here, I will have some stuff for you to listen to, then you can possibly ascertain better what I know or don't know about recording. With over 20 years in the music biz in one capacity or another I have stumbled across a few tidbits of information, and developed some skills that people are willing to pay for. Why that may not mean much to you at this point, it illustrates why I can confidently say that I don't give a hoot what you may think about what I say. But I do like to be civil, and I can accommodate a great discussion on the merits of anything audio! Please feel free to participate.

Peace bro.

[MISTERQCUE]

Excellent points Sound Cracker,but with over 30 years of music experience I have come to enjoy both worlds of music & recording; the LIVE musicians playing their instruments
AND the soloist who partakes in synths and modules to produce music thats' also just as good. I for one participate in both worlds when the opportunity presents itself!
Peace
Mr.Q

[ametth]

Sound Cracker, who are you? What can I listen to that you've worked on? Thanks!

[ametth]

popstar, your links are still not working. fix them and I would be glad to listen.

[Sound Cracker]

patience is a virtue!

Soon enough.

Good day!

[Wide Awake]

I find it arrogant to assume that people can't tell the difference between samples and the real instruments they emulate. (and a little disturbing that Mr.Q thinks those were excellent points) There are practical reasons why someone would use a string sample instead of hiring a string section to come over to their house to play, for an example. Did Keith Emerson make a mistake using synths instead of hiring "real insturments" to play his Moog parts ? Were Muddy Waters and Charlie Christianson playing high-quality instruments when they created great music.

I believe in using the best tools you have access to. I have a room full of Taylor guitars, Yamaha piano, Gibson electrics, etc. to prove it. I just think that engineers can get caught up in the details and start believing that you can't produce good quality without all high-end gear. This site has people with varying budgets and aspirations. You aren't going to get a lot of talk about Neve and Telefunken here. You might have to discuss Rode and Mackie if you want to slum with us.

You are opinionated and that's cool, so am I. I find that most who really care about music are. I also understand the concept of this site better than you. Thanks for giving me the o.k. to participate.

Cheers

[MISTERQCUE]

Hey WideAwake, I should have been more specific when responding to SoundCrack's statment and edited my post to say "True point" and not "Excellent points" when SC stated that "their hasn't been a module produced that can capture all the nuances of real instrument".DUHHH!! I'm pretty much sure any-1 with artifical intelligence can make that same statement. That was the only thing I happen to agree with him on.Other than that,his post just rambled on about his experience,his clients etc, etc.
Yo wideawake, trust me! I KNOW a sample when I hear one!
Modules and the like are here for all of us to produce
REAL MUSIC! I'll try not to make anymore disturbing statments either!
Peace
Mr.Q

[Shailat]

I have way too much experience in audio to ever have to "reconsider" anything I have to say about it.

If you are into quality, then....
patience is a virtue!

Soon enough.

Good day!

Soundcraker We all have the patience and can't wait to hear your vast experience and quality recordings.
Just don't keep us waiting to long......

Welcome popstar I'm sure every body understands now that you had no intention in being arrogant as to Real V.S. synth music.
It might be an interesting topic to debate. If we all leave the cruddy remarks at home.

[gmiller1122]

Just how equip-ignorant am I?...

What's a POD?

...stop laughing, I'm serious...

[ametth]

Originally posted by Shailat

Soundcraker We all have the patience and can't wait to hear your vast experience and quality recordings.
Just don't keep us waiting to long......

Welcome popstar I'm sure every body understands now that you had no intention in being arrogant as to Real V.S. synth music.
It might be an interesting topic to debate. If we all leave the cruddy remarks at home.

c'mon soundcracker, dont you have anything in your years of experience to point us to? I want to hear something you've worked on. Dont get me wrong here, I was just telling my friend about how every single one of your posts have been helpful..but your just dangling a carrot in front of a rabbit in a cage. You definitely know what your talking about, so I wanna hear some stuff.

[mixmkr]

Hey soundcracker...you mean to tell us that with over 20 years experience recording "real" instruments, etc., you don't have anything right now to show for it?? Of all the bands you recorded, they all have restrictions on listening to their stuff (like none of them are poor bastards and have a MP3.com site like every other poor bastard here)? Or..you don't even have something you've done? You're making us wait....jeez...the agony. Personally, I wouldn't mind that with an arrogant attitude you seem to display if you where disgruntled and took a hike away from these boards.