Thickining up guitars?

[Chris Jahn]

I have some guitar tracks that are just a little thin. Now before i get a pile of responces about micing techniques, room sound, and dialing in the amp, let me just say that i dont have the option for these tracks to go back and track them better. Imstuck with what i have for the moment.


So what im asking for is some comp/eq and anything else suggestions for beefing up thin high gain guitars post tracking?

[joswil44]

If you have a Line 6 POD you could try Re-Amping.

Basically run the guitar track through the input of the POD switched on Re-Amping mode and then you can apply more lows, mids, highs, Gain, etc.

Otherwise its tough, you kinda have to do your best with EQ and maybe compression.

But the reality is garbage in ='s garbage out.

And what ever you do to Polish it up will just be Polished garbage.

Try your best to do what you already know how to make it work or Re-Amp if possible.

[DAS19]

I would try making two tracks of the same track panning each hard or 50%. Then add the correct compresson for the guitar no one can really tell you how much or how little to use. We can just tell you around where it sohuld be for that instrument but still doesnt mean that at someytime u might not want it differnet.

Use your ears. Play around with the two tracks put differnet effects on the different tracks. Maybe make 2 more of the same track and compress it differently or eq it a lot different.

This is just what I would do.

Dave

[DAS19]

Originally Posted by joswil44

But the reality is garbage in ='s garbage out.

He said they were a little thin not garbage.

[joswil44]

Originally Posted by DAS19

I would try making two tracks of the same track panning each hard or 50%. Then add the correct compresson for the guitar no one can really tell you how much or how little to use. We can just tell you around where it sohuld be for that instrument but still doesnt mean that at someytime u might not want it differnet.

Use your ears. Play around with the two tracks put differnet effects on the different tracks. Maybe make 2 more of the same track and compress it differently or eq it a lot different.

This is just what I would do.

Dave

Sounds like he already said he is not in a position to add more tracks so he doesnt have anything else to double with......

One thing you could try is duplicating the guitar track and then throw a small delay on it, like 10-15 milli seconds.

That should simulate the same inconsistancy's as doubling a guitar track which make it sound thicker or fuller.

Pan it to taste from 75%to 50% and try EQing it a little differently and see if that helps thicken the sound.

Do the same on both sides assuming you have a left and right guitar track.

[Chris Jahn]

The reamping thing? (cuz i do have a line 6 pod) when im runing the guitar
out where is i coming from?, am i running a soloed track of the guitar straigh from the outs on my interface? and then hitting record on another track? it seems like that would do it but it also seems to simple and fraught with danger!!!!

just one line (left or right cuz the track mono through the pod out of the pod onto another track? yes/no kinda?

and the re amping mode switch, im not looking at the line six as we speak, is it in plain site?

Also if im monitering what im getting, and i want to mute the outgoing guitar isnt that gonna stop the signal, what the situation for listening to the resualts, and what about the level of output from the computer, im sure that would effect the sound?

[joswil44]

Originally Posted by DAS19

He said they were a little thin not garbage.

I am not calling his tracks garbage.

I said the reality is garbage in ='s garbage out.

Its a figure of speach.

Recording Instructors say it all the time.

Implying that the best solution no matter what is to do it again the right way.

Obviously he stated he cant do that, but for future reference it should be remembered and this situation should be avoided.

[Chris Jahn]

dont worry i didnt take it that way. and its not that i dotn have mor tracks to use, im just not in a posistion to re-record the guitars, so i have to work with the tracks that i have, but i have tons of tracks to double triple wahtever and i can also do the reamp thing which i posted many questions about above.

[joswil44]

Originally Posted by Chris Jahn

The reamping thing? (cuz i do have a line 6 pod) when im runing the guitar
out where is i coming from?, am i running a soloed track of the guitar straigh from the outs on my interface? and then hitting record on another track? it seems like that would do it but it also seems to simple and fraught with danger!!!!

just one line (left or right cuz the track mono through the pod out of the pod onto another track? yes/no kinda?

and the re amping mode switch, im not looking at the line six as we speak, is it in plain site?

Also if im monitering what im getting, and i want to mute the outgoing guitar isnt that gonna stop the signal, what the situation for listening to the resualts, and what about the level of output from the computer, im sure that would effect the sound?

I believe the POD 2.0 has a small black switch the slides. It might say AIR next to it or something like that. Check the Line 6 website for the manual if you have to. It might be next to the Mono or Left Output jack.

But you basically have it right.

Rought the guitar solo'd through your output and then into the POD. Then the MONO or Left Output of the POD back into your input recording on a new track.

Im not sure how the monitoring will work according to how you have your configuration but Im sure you'll get it working.

Just test it out.

[Chris Jahn]

one last thing i just thought of, why not jsut run the signal through an amp modeling plu-in? is there somthign about this idea that is inferior to running in all the way out through an external device such as the line 6?

[joswil44]

Originally Posted by Chris Jahn

one last thing i just thought of, why not jsut run the signal through an amp modeling plu-in? is there somthign about this idea that is inferior to running in all the way out through an external device such as the line 6?

Basically works the same.

It might even produce a better sound with a modeling plugin since your not adding noise or losing signal by re-routing to the Line 6.

But it never hurts to try if you have the Line 6 now.

[gcapel]

Originally Posted by joswil44

Sounds like he already said he is not in a position to add more tracks so he doesnt have anything else to double with......

One thing you could try is duplicating the guitar track and then throw a small delay on it, like 10-15 milli seconds.

That should simulate the same inconsistancy's as doubling a guitar track which make it sound thicker or fuller.

Pan it to taste from 75%to 50% and try EQing it a little differently and see if that helps thicken the sound.

Do the same on both sides assuming you have a left and right guitar track.

beat me to it

[Sonixx]

can you possibly post a short clip of just the raw gtr track?

[xfinsterx]

Boost a wide band from80hz to about 150 hz.
Boost till it sounds fat.
Then put a multiband compressor next in line (Like a waves C4 or something of the like) to push the lows down under control. Doing this keeps the lows fat but not out of wack. This typicly works well for me. Youll need to experiment, but its a good possiblilty you can make it work for you with some patience.

[Flangerhans]

If you've got a harmonizer, try a track of that mixed behind the guitar tracks, use an appropriate lower interval for the music, and eq it to fill in the low end. Kind of like an aural exciter for low mids. I've had luck with this before...the double then delay solution is very workable, reference the vocals in the Doors "Love Her Madly" for a use of this technique.
The other method I can think of is to tone down the other tracks, cutting eq in them where the guitars fit, and letting the perceived guitar get thicker in contrast.
Finding a method that is compatible with the type of music you make is a consideration as well. The more distorted the guitar, the better it will respond to eq thickening, whereas clean strings work well with delay effects, at least IMLW.

[Tim Walker]

Originally Posted by DAS19

He said they were a little thin not garbage.

Thin guitar tracks are garbage.

[Myriad_Rocker]

How in the hell is he going to re-amp the track if it's not a clean track? He already said it's high gain guitars. Re-amping already distorted guitars (unless you're just reamping for pre color) will not work. Unless you like hearing crap.

The best suggestion that has already been given is to employ the Haas effect. This is the copying of one track and shifting the copy by some milliseconds to give that "double tracked" feel.

If you have a nice pre, you could also reamp through that. But not through the Line 6 POD.

[Reggie]

Use a parametric equalizer to add fatness and subtract thinness.

[Jamz0r]

Originally Posted by Reggie

Use a parametric equalizer to add fatness and subtract thinness.

That's probably the easiest way to correct the problem.
Maybe clone the track and use 2 slightly different EQ settings, and a bit of panning.

Also, make sure you are deciding the guitars are too thin with the entire mix, and not while soloing the guitar tracks. Sometimes people shoot for a killer sound while soloed, but need to consider the entire mix.

[Chris Jahn]

I think this qustion was sorta answered above, but i was wondering, if by putting a "delay" on a second track of the same guitar it meant a delay effect, or sliding it over a little bit?

Cuz i tried just adding some effect last night, and it actually kinda worked, but in retrospect i think people were suggesting that i shift the track over a bit!!

[mrhotapples]

I like to pan rhythm guitars pretty hard and then send them to a reverb channel mixed in pretty low and about 50% in. Sometimes I'll do the opposite. It sounds good though, it feels more like reverb since the reverb is chillin' out in the back behind the kick and snare and cymbals but the guitars are still wailin' on the sides.

[joswil44]

Originally Posted by Chris Jahn

I think this qustion was sorta answered above, but i was wondering, if by putting a "delay" on a second track of the same guitar it meant a delay effect, or sliding it over a little bit?

Cuz i tried just adding some effect last night, and it actually kinda worked, but in retrospect i think people were suggesting that i shift the track over a bit!!

I'd stick to actually applying delay on the duplicated track where you specifically tell it how much delay you want.

Theres not much point in moving a track unless your trying to sync something up that already had a delay in it.

[joswil44]

Originally Posted by Myriad_Rocker

How in the hell is he going to re-amp the track if it's not a clean track? He already said it's high gain guitars. Re-amping already distorted guitars (unless you're just reamping for pre color) will not work. Unless you like hearing crap.

The best suggestion that has already been given is to employ the Haas effect. This is the copying of one track and shifting the copy by some milliseconds to give that "double tracked" feel.

If you have a nice pre, you could also reamp through that. But not through the Line 6 POD.

He can reamp IN HELL and not have to add more gain to it. Its called turning the gain knob down.

Besides, the Modern "High Gain" setting on the POD has much less gain than the Rectifier Setting.

High Gain to a Van Halen fan is differnt to High Gain of a Cannibal Corpse fan.

Its all up to him to figure out using all of the possible solutions we can give him.

Whats the point in shooting down other peoples ideas when you havent even thought it through yourself.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Am I the only one flabbergassed that we're (as of this writing) some 30 hours and 24 posts into this thread and nobody has asked what Chris' definition of "thin" actually is or asked to hear a clip so that they can actually hear what he's talking about?

One man's "thin" is another man's "flabby".

EDIT: Correction. Sonixx actually asked for a clip early on. Smart man

G.

[Sonixx]

Originally Posted by Chris Jahn

I think this qustion was sorta answered above, but i was wondering, if by putting a "delay" on a second track of the same guitar it meant a delay effect, or sliding it over a little bit?

Cuz i tried just adding some effect last night, and it actually kinda worked, but in retrospect i think people were suggesting that i shift the track over a bit!!

this is not that good of a solution. you'll find that in some spots the image collapses.

Reggie has the answer...

2nd and last try... will you post a short clip?