Question Impossible!!

[gullyjewelz]

I know its been said time and time again, and I know there are a gazillion ways to do it, but I still will pose this "mix" vs "master" question


HEre is why: I have this song that I have recorded. I did the beat on my triton and yea I did a little EQ to it on the board. Since then, I have dropped it on a cd, imported it to my computer and slapped vocals on top. I now have what I suppose is a "decent" mix - and I know that "Decent" isnt good enough - but for the time being, I am going to keep it as it is.

Now, a "connect" of mine says give him a copy of the song so he can get it mastered for a radio submission. He says, no promises about the radio. but he at least wants to get it to his "mastering" guy so this dude can at least do a little tweaking to it . . . i.e. adjusting the frequencies to the wave file so that the file itself "matches" the "volume" levels of the other submissions/songs being played on the radio. he said that if the radio guy has to turn up the volume when he is demoing the song - he will certainly reject it.

(I am searchign the gthreads now to see where this info. may have been posted before - but fo rthe time being . . .) anyone with a streamlined "just for dummies" version of what frequencis I can adjust on my own to have the song match "radio" frequencies . . .

[Change of POETS]

You can't.

There's no such thing as "special frequencies for radio". The adjustment of frequencies via a parametric EQ in the mastering process is for one purpose only... To bring out the best in the song. To Highlight certain aspects of the arrangement, and bring out the best, fullest sound.

As far as volume is concerned, run some mild compression on the track, and slap it in a limiter.

[gullyjewelz]

coo - i will try that. does it make sense to "also" take my version and play "beside" another song that has been played on the radio - like in an attempt to compare . . . or even normalize both tracks together? does that even make sense - as far as what im askin?

[Change of POETS]

No, do not normalize the track. All that will do is make the peaks of your file match the peaks of the "radio" file.

If you want me to master the track for you, I will. I do single track mastering for $35.00

[Trumpspade]

Originally Posted by Change of POETS

No, do not normalize the track. All that will do is make the peaks of your file match the peaks of the "radio" file.

If you want me to master the track for you, I will. I do single track mastering for $35.00

I'll do it for $34.99

Just kidding! I can't even mix properly..........

[Fishmed]

Mastering

In this article, it is explained that radio stations compress your material when they play it. If you have high compression on your mastered song, their systems will compress it even more; therefore, your music might sound even worse.

[bknot1]

I remeber reading that article...nice post..

[Change of POETS]

Originally Posted by Fishmed_Returns

Mastering

In this article, it is explained that radio stations compress your material when they play it. If you have high compression on your mastered song, their systems will compress it even more; therefore, your music might sound even worse.

Even so, every song played on radio is from a mastered CD which is generally limited (by todays standards) upwards of -9dbFS RMS. Radio then sends their signal through a compression limiter boosting the volume even more.

That's why you have to turn your volume up when switching from standard FM broadcast to CD. Your CD's aren't as loud as your friendly neighborhood ClearChannel station.

It's sad, because most CD's these days are already limited to the point of no dynamics. Radio is even worse.

[Fishmed]

Originally Posted by Change of POETS

Even so, every song played on radio is from a mastered CD which is generally limited (by todays standards) upwards of -9dbFS RMS. Radio then sends their signal through a compression limiter boosting the volume even more.

That's why you have to turn your volume up when switching from standard FM broadcast to CD. Your CD's aren't as loud as your friendly neighborhood ClearChannel station.

It's sad, because most CD's these days are already limited to the point of no dynamics. Radio is even worse.

I had read another EM article wher the guy said that all music on the radio is played at the same volume. The thing is with music mastered so loud on the CD, the Radio station has to use the limiters (Compressor) to reduce the volume, which then takes out any remaining dynamics. So the better thing is not to go for the LOUDEST CD. Granted you don't want to have a CD that you can barely hear, but you want a CD with enough dynamics to spare so it still sounds great when it hits the radio.

[gullyjewelz]

oooooh what a puzzling dilemma i have before me . . .

CHANGE - u said $35 for a single track? hmm, how much for an entire album 17 songs deep?

[BillyBo]

Originally Posted by Change of POETS

That's why you have to turn your volume up when switching from standard FM broadcast to CD. Your CD's aren't as loud as your friendly neighborhood ClearChannel station.

you sure?? i usually have to turn UP my radio when i switch from cd to FM. it's rare, but i do listen to radio, haha.

[Change of POETS]

Originally Posted by Fishmed_Returns

I had read another EM article wher the guy said that all music on the radio is played at the same volume. The thing is with music mastered so loud on the CD, the Radio station has to use the limiters (Compressor) to reduce the volume, which then takes out any remaining dynamics. So the better thing is not to go for the LOUDEST CD. Granted you don't want to have a CD that you can barely hear, but you want a CD with enough dynamics to spare so it still sounds great when it hits the radio.

All music on the radio is NOT played at the same volume. This is what started the volume wars in the 90's in the first place. Certain radio stations started boosting their levels with the concept of louder = more noticeable. The more noticeable your station was, the more listeners you get, which translates into higher advertising revenue, which means more profit. Thus, louder = $$$ in this equation.

Turn on an oldies station, or even a Easy Listening station. They may play some of todays "lighter" hit music, but the perceived loudness of those stations is well below your Top 40 station. Some of this has to do with airwaves and signal transmitting, but that's a very small part of the equation.

Radio does use a compressor to reduce the volume of some tracks. With most of todays music being squashed to death, they have to control the volume and they do that by limiting. The tracks that are quieter, will be limited up to the same point where others are being limited down.

However, no radio station (that I've submitted to) will accept music that isn't professionally mixed/mastered. Does it have to be at -7db RMS for them to play it? No... But if you send a track in at -18db RMS, they won't even consider playing it. It sucks, but that's the game...

Billy, I have to turn my radio down when I switch from CD to a Top 40 station. But then again, I don't listen to much if any commercial music. It's generally all underground, so that's my excuse.

[Change of POETS]

Originally Posted by gullyjewelz

oooooh what a puzzling dilemma i have before me . . .

CHANGE - u said $35 for a single track? hmm, how much for an entire album 17 songs deep?

I would estimate at least one hour per track, at $35 an hour. So, about $600.

[Fishmed]

Originally Posted by Change of POETS

All music on the radio is NOT played at the same volume. This is what started the volume wars in the 90's in the first place. Certain radio stations started boosting their levels with the concept of louder = more noticeable. The more noticeable your station was, the more listeners you get, which translates into higher advertising revenue, which means more profit. Thus, louder = $$$ in this equation.

Turn on an oldies station, or even a Easy Listening station. They may play some of todays "lighter" hit music, but the perceived loudness of those stations is well below your Top 40 station. Some of this has to do with airwaves and signal transmitting, but that's a very small part of the equation.

Radio does use a compressor to reduce the volume of some tracks. With most of todays music being squashed to death, they have to control the volume and they do that by limiting. The tracks that are quieter, will be limited up to the same point where others are being limited down.

However, no radio station (that I've submitted to) will accept music that isn't professionally mixed/mastered. Does it have to be at -7db RMS for them to play it? No... But if you send a track in at -18db RMS, they won't even consider playing it. It sucks, but that's the game...

Billy, I have to turn my radio down when I switch from CD to a Top 40 station. But then again, I don't listen to much if any commercial music. It's generally all underground, so that's my excuse.

I think the guy in the article was referring to all songs per station, versus station to station. I am not surprised radio stations have set a minimum level that recordings must be for them to play the music on the air. I am sure their compressors are at a fixed setting based on that minimum level they require.

[gullyjewelz]

OK - HOW DO U SET THE FINAL "WAVE" OF THE SONG TO at -7db RMS OR MORE IMPORTANTLY, HOW DO U MAKE SURE IT IS NOT ANYWHERE NEAR -18db RMS, ???