What is a Mic Pre for?

yetipur · #1 03-19-2007

Hello,

It may sound like a dumb question, but I have been having a heated debate with my co creators on the topic of mic Pre's. We are all beginners and just starting to get into discussions of the rack.

We are using a mish mash of hi and low end euipment , drum machines with a E16track Fostex analog machine and mixer. No computers (yet)
Our fanciest piece of equip is an avalon pre amp . We got it to use with a class a vocal mic which worlks wonderfully together, the vocals lay down right in the pocket.
My question is, do you record everything (drums, guitars, symbols , kick , bass ) all using the mic pre? Is that how you do it?

And is a mic pre considered an effect? If it alters the sound is it an effect? Does a mic pre just make things sound bigger?

Should we use the avalon to record the drum machines?

notbradsohner · #2 03-19-2007

Mic pres boost the low low signal of a mic. It makes the signal balanced. If your drum machine has balanced outs, you dont need a mic pre.

yetipur · #3 03-19-2007

how do I find out if the drum machine has balanced outs?

amzavareei · #4 03-19-2007

Balanced means it's got 3 conductors on the output. Tip/Ring/Sleeve. TRS. It probably doesn't need to be balanced. Just plug the outs into a couple of the line ins on your mixer or deck, and tweak the levels. You might be able to run through your Avalon, if it's got DI 1/4" jacks. Should make it better than just straight to the mixer. But it's probably just a mono pre, so like I said before, straight to the mixer.

MOFO Pro · #5 03-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by yetipur

Our fanciest piece of equip is an avalon pre amp .

You don't hear much about the Avalon around here, most people go for the DMP or RNP... I'd be glad to trade you if you want to "upgrade" to that...

TragikRemix · #6 03-20-2007

are you joking?

you own an avalon but don't know what a mic pre is ???

wow. co creators, as in theres multiple of you's, that spend nearly $2000 on a preamp and dont know what it does?

TragikRemix · #7 03-20-2007

ok ok ok nevertheless. mic emits an incredibly low sigal -> preamp boosts the signal -> recorder remembers boosted signal.

like they said, if it is balanced, no need.

if it is unbalanced, you would typically put it thru a DI- Direct input, which in actuality, is a preamp for 'line' equiptment, i guess you could say. most DI boxes have a TS input and an XLR or TRS output.

your avalon may have a DI, im not sure exactly which one you have, or if any of them do at all.

cusebassman · #8 03-20-2007

[QUOTE=TragikRemix]are you joking?

you own an avalon but don't know what a mic pre is ???[QUOTE]

That makes me want to cry.

Was this thing given to you, or did you guys actually drop the cash for an Avalon not knowing what it was? I'm not saying anybody's stupid here, I'm just jealous... I like my DMP-3's, but I have a sneaking suspicion the Avalon is in another class of quality... *sigh*

...maybe someday, Avalon. *someday*

soundchaser59 · #9 03-20-2007

That was my thought.......you guys have all this Sears gear, and then you throw in an Avalon preamp?

TragikRemix · #10 03-20-2007

nice to see i wasnt the only one going, "WTF"..

ill trade ya.. ive got a nice Class A Behringer compressor that will make your vocals sound 10000000x better than that stupid avalon.

MCI2424 · #11 03-20-2007

I own 3 Avalons and all have DI inputs.

TragikRemix · #12 03-20-2007

there ya go

avalons have DI's. i dont own one so i wouldnt know, but MCI has confirmed my suspicion.

now i must get back to procrastinating doing my homework.

djchris73 · #13 03-20-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by notbradsohner

Mic pres boost the low low signal of a mic. It makes the signal balanced. If your drum machine has balanced outs, you dont need a mic pre.

Even if it was unbalanced it still wouldn't need a mic pre. Most drum machines and most synths for that matter have a Line Level output. Most do. I'm sure someone will mention some obscure piece of equipment that doesn't.

djchris73 · #14 03-20-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by yetipur

Hello,

It may sound like a dumb question, but I have been having a heated debate with my co creators on the topic of mic Pre's. We are all beginners and just starting to get into discussions of the rack.

Oh boy, here we go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yetipur

We are using a mish mash of hi and low end euipment , drum machines with a E16track Fostex analog machine and mixer. No computers (yet)

And so it begins.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by yetipur

Our fanciest piece of equip is an avalon pre amp . We got it to use with a class a vocal mic which worlks wonderfully together, the vocals lay down right in the pocket.

You are correct, Sir.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yetipur

My question is, do you record everything (drums, guitars, symbols , kick , bass ) all using the mic pre? Is that how you do it?

Not usually. An Avalon VT-737 for example is used mostly for vocals and and could be used as a DI for guitars and bass, but the latter is overkill. An Avalon M5 is strictly a Mic Pre-Amp. Used only for vocals and to mike up acoustic instruments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yetipur

And is a mic pre considered an effect? If it alters the sound is it an effect? Does a mic pre just make things sound bigger?

No. Effects are reverb, flanger, chorus, wah, delay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yetipur

Should we use the avalon to record the drum machines?

No. Come out of the drum machines line outputs and into the line inputs of your mixer or multi-track recording device.

djchris73 · #15 03-20-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragikRemix

if it is unbalanced, you would typically put it thru a DI- Direct input, which in actuality, is a preamp for 'line' equiptment

Let me clarify that for you, friend. A DI Box takes an unbalanced, High Impedence (Hi Z), Line Level audio signal coming from let's say an electric guitar or electric bass (without going through an amp) and turns it into a balanced, Low Impedence (Lo Z), MIC Level signal. You are correct about the 1/4" TS plug to a Male XLR. This, is gospel.

yetipur · #16 03-25-2007

I want to thank all of you for your information and taking to time to answer my questions. I've asked many on this board all over the place infact.
Some of you have been awesome and I appreciate it big time. But this disturbs me a bit.
http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/sho...d.php?t=232650

Yes I am a newbie to home recording , I am a songwriter who wants control of the recording process, but, I am not an engineer.
Trust me, If I were in a position to have a Jeff Emerick, or Butch Vig, or Sardy on my team I wouldnt be posting questions here.
Hopefully someday when I have the knowlege that some of you who answered my questions have, I will either
A. Wont be hanging around on this board because I will be too busy recording masterpieces or having someone else who knows better recording masterpieces
or B. I will come to this board wanting to share my wealth of knowlege and teach newbies like myself the arts of recording because I care, and because I can answer questions

hey, I have a sense of humor and can laugh at how stupid some of my questions may be to some of you, sure, but the last time I checked,
this was a forum where beginners could ask questions, not to be judged for what equipment I have or what I do or do not know about recording.
Is there a law that says you must know everything about a piece of equipment to own it, to be worthy?
So what, we have an Avalon,(some other dude here, said he has 3!) and although I dont know everything about it, I know enough to know it was worth buying . Just because I didnt know all the ways I should or should not use it doesnt mean I can't own it or can't ask questions about it.
What's the saying? "you don't have to know everything, to do something"
Well we are doing it people, we are making a self produced , self engineered, self mixed, self recorded, self written, self mixed, self everything recording. And of course I am not saying that makes us special, but give me break. Do I have to explain that
3 people scrounged to pay for the avalon, do I have to justify that to anyone here? I am sure my avalon is peanuts compared to how much money people have spent on recoprding equip in these forums.
I'll tell you what we DONT have, we dont have a computer or expensive software programs, we dont have expensive instruments and monitors and some high tech studio. We allocated money to the part of "our" unique home set up to where we thought it would count the most for "our " unique sound and style of our group and what we couold afford. We are a band , just trying to record our own shit people! thats all. So what if we are mixing sears equipment with hoity toity equipment, thats what makes us creative, thats what makes us original or unique. Rules are made to be broken, especially in music and in recording. If you dont like it then thats your opinion, fine with me. I don't do everything by the book.
All you haters made assumptions and comments that make you look like sarcastic jaded bitter recording artists who are most likely the people with thousands of dollars in recording euipment at home and know alot about alot of things. so what.
What you don't know is that scoffing at me isn't going to make you better or your recordings better or your songs better and it isnt going to stop me from continuing to record and excersise my right to be clever, innovative and niave. so what.

cusebassman · #17 03-25-2007

[QUOTE=cusebassman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragikRemix

are you joking?

you own an avalon but don't know what a mic pre is ???

That makes me want to cry.

Was this thing given to you, or did you guys actually drop the cash for an Avalon not knowing what it was? I'm not saying anybody's stupid here, I'm just jealous... I like my DMP-3's, but I have a sneaking suspicion the Avalon is in another class of quality... *sigh*

...maybe someday, Avalon. *someday*

Tifstorey · #18 03-25-2007

Dont think anyone was insulting you/having a go mate - Think it was more at the fact you shelled out alot of cash on a top piece of kit that you didn't really understand the full use for..

Either way, hope you've got it sorted and hopefully wont stop using these boards

TragikRemix · #19 03-25-2007

i still think its insane to own an avalon and not know what it does.

werd. i aint hatin', just got that 'wtf' look on my face.

gordone · #20 03-25-2007

OK Fair enough. But the the fact that you had to scrimp and save for the Avalon is all the more reason to RESEARCH your purchase. It's usually folks who have too much money and no sense dropping big bucks on stuff they don't understand (see Digital Camera forums for folks buying a Canon 5D and a 24-70mm f/2.8 without knowing what the 2.8 means)

In all the time it took to save up for the Avalon, maybe you should have been reading up on WHAT the Avalon is!

yetipur · #21 03-25-2007

We knew enough to know the Avalon was good for vocals and guitars , thats what we bought it for, I just wasnt clear on why it made things sound better thats all. I wanted to make sure I understood what a pre emp is used for so we could maximize what we are using.
We just werent sure what else, we should use it for .

We werent heavily schooled on every aspect of every piece opf equipment before we bought it, like I said man, we are a band trying to engineer our own record, we are just home schooling it.

Some article somewhere, said Avalon with a good mic would be good, so we just went for it, because sometimes you just gotta go for it. Niave ? Maybe, but hey it works.
Too much money?
We dont have too much money obviously if it took 3 people to pitch in for it. We didnt put our money toward alot of other stuff in return! We lack alot of what alot of you mayt consider necessary, but I won't get into that.

We just felt it was worth investing in that (vocals) aspect of our studio , and I tell you, it's been worth every penny, things are sounding good on that old used reel to reel!
If you think we dont appreciate it , think again , we do! we do we do.

Thanks ,
peace and good night.

yetipur · #22 03-25-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordone

OK Fair enough. But the the fact that you had to scrimp and save for the Avalon is all the more reason to RESEARCH your purchase.

Quote:

It's usually folks who have too much money and no sense

dropping big bucks on stuff they don't understand (see Digital Camera forums for folks buying a Canon 5D and a 24-70mm f/2.8 without knowing what the 2.8 means)

In all the time it took to save up for the Avalon, maybe you should have been reading up on WHAT the Avalon is!

research , mesrearch, times a wasting. I researched enough to know that an Avalon is a fine piece of equipment that is good for recording vocals. (at the end of the day, it is just a piece of equipment)
We figured , we would "figure it" out along the way and ask homerecording.com . for the rest of the answers, (just kidding)
It's not like I havent already decided that music is my life. It is. Our band shares a 2500.oo dollar car and a living space, we arent wiping our asses with 100 dollar bills here

QUOTE]It's usually folks who have too much money and no sense[/QUOTE.

I have sense enough to know that common sense is just an opinion and usually boring as hell. I am proud to say I have no common sense.
In all the time it would have taken for me to learn about everything an Avalon could do , I coul've been learning how to use it hands on already.

We SHOULD have RESEARCHED while we we saving , but we did'nt.

We were just too busy writing , jamming, arranging, gigging, mixing other recordings, learning other things about recording, working, doing the dishes, feeding the cat, doing laundry eating and pooping.

yetipur · #23 03-25-2007

[QUOTE=TragikRemix]i still think its insane to own an avalon and not know what it does.

that's the beauty of it.
It's like
I saw another indie band last night with 1000 dollar guitars and expensive vintage pedals amps and their slick razor cut hairdo's and vintage synths and imacs, ipods, and computers all over the place who didnt know what they were doing either, but hey , who am I?

they were doin it.

maybe that is the beauty of it.

TragikRemix · #24 03-26-2007

thanks for the grey one. i hope you attempted to neg everyone else too for your stupidity and our confusement.

yetipur · #25 03-26-2007

yeah, and thanks for the multiples of you who left me gray comments , here are a few, calling me a dumbass and making rude remarks. Apologies if I commented to the wrong person,
but if I commented to the right person, guess that puts me on your level , my mistake!
I was totally "stupid and confused" for standing up for myself.!!

(If I had asked questions about a 50 dollar mic pre every one would've been alot nicer to me eh?)

Hard Panning/Mixdown to... 03-26-2007 07:57 Sign your rep. ez_willis

oh, I will, next time Willie, I will...
Funny , Convenient and hypocritical , how you erased your sarcastic comment about how it would be a novel idea for me to tell you how I had connected everything first. and you did'nt sign your rep the first time.....
Sorry I didnt word my newbie question to your liking, but thats WHY I am a newbie and am on this friggin board to begin with!!
I learned how to sign reps like the people below did, I was just doing it, like you guys were doin me.)
And hopefully next time you won't give me an answer like " I do" with no real answer. or
"I already went over this with you " what is that? are you scolding me?) You did'nt go over anything with me, and to get jerky with me for asking the question again, that you never even answered?
"I do" isnt an answer, its just rude. If you think my beginner ass is dumb or you want to get impatient and pissy with me, than don't answer my "stupid " questions.

What is a Mic Pre for? 03-26-2007 06:05 Ignorant prick

What is a Mic Pre for? 03-25-2007 18:49 You're still a dumbass.... [/I]

What am I a dumbass for?

Being a beginner?

Buying an avalon? Asking questions about all it's uses ?

Or Just posting questions on this board?