Q for those of you who use digital multitrack recorders

[westermane]

Hi all,

I am thinking about upgrading from my 4-track to a new digital multitrack (maybe the new Korg D12 when it comes out). I don't have any other equipment besides my instruments and a condensor mic. I was wondering if I will need to buy anything else besides the recorder to make it complete (like a mixer, etc.). It seems like these digital recorders have it all, but I'm not totally positive.

Also, are you able to plug electric guitar directly into the recorder and use the recorder's effects as the amp, or is that not recommended?

Besides the Korg D-12, do you guys have any other suggestions for around that price? Thanks for the help!

[Wide Awake]

I happen to think the Korg units are a good deal for price/performance. I haven't heard the D12 or any of the guitar amp simulations on the Korg products. I think the Pod, J-station, Sansamp classic, and Yamaha DG Stomp would probably be much better. I would play the ones in the recorder and then compare. Those are all under $350 US.

You don't need outboard preamps. The ones in these recorders work just fine, but in the future it is wise to eventually upgrade to better ones when you have the funds. Microphones, monitors, and something to mix down should be your first priorities. I use the Event PS-6 powered monitors and I like them but there are a few others in that price range to listen to. Without good monitors your recordings will suffer. Headphones are not a good alternative to monitors. When you shop for monitors take a few CD's with you that you know really well. A good salesman will tell you what to listen for.

Subscribing to a few good recording/music magazines helps a lot too. I've learned a lot from Electronic Musician and Sound on Sound magazines.

[TMonkey]

Just to add to Wide Awakes list:

Hard drives are notoriously shaky so get something to back-up your tracks (CD R/RW, zip drive, whatever works with the D12). A CD R/RW can also double as your two track mix down device as well.

An active direct box can sometimes help direct in recording if you can't afford a guitar amp modeler as suggested by WA. I'm not familiar with the D12, but you may need to provide some phantom power for your mike (ART Tube MP, $100, does this for under $100 and I believe also qualifies as a direct box.)

[westermane]

Thanks for the help guys! Just curious, what is a two-track mixdown? I figured you could just burn a CD directly from the D12, is what you described any different? Thanks!

[mikemoritz]

I have the Korg D16 and have had nothing but success with it. The guitar sims are decent. Anyway, the two track mixdown is that you have to bounce all your tracks to the 1 and 2 slots because that is all that is copied to the CD during the transfer.

[markert]

Welcome mikemoritz:

Always glad to see new d16 users. It has been kind of lonely here for us at times. Seems like the d16 or d1600 posts are getting more and more frequent. Probably due to the plunging price of the d16 (from $1999 to $1299 in one year).

I agree that the d16 guitar sims are decent, but not great. I use a Johnson J-station for direct recording (about $300). I also have used a Korg ax1g and digitech rp100 (both about $100) with good results.

For acoustic guitar, two rode nt3's sound super sweet.

Westermane: I will sugggest seeing if the d16's are going to be phased out soon. You may get a killer deal then. Sixteen tracks are better than twelve and not much more cash.

[westermane]

Thanks for the advice!

I actually use an NT3 (I only have one as of yet). I was wondering how you guys place your mics (say, if you had two of them). Where do you aim them, and at what angle, height, etc. Thanks!

[Kwong]

Originally posted by markert
Welcome mikemoritz:

....................For acoustic guitar, two rode nt3's sound super sweet.

I hate to sound stupid...but...hey..I AM stupid in this area! What are two rode nt3's??? What does it do for your acoustic guitar?

Ken........recordingly......dumb as a box of rocks........

[corban]

Finally, a question that an inexperienced newbie like myself can answer. I've never actually done this, but what Markert was referring to is using two Rhode NT-3 microphones to record an acoustic. They're condenser mics, which means you get a fuller sound. I think a standard placement is pointing one down from above the hole, parallel to the strings, with the other one pointing directly at the hole, perpindicular to the strings. Lots of people go for this technique cause it gives you a really full sound.

[Kwong]

AHA! OK...well gee wiz do I feel smart then. I used all THREE of my mics to record my guitar (Taylor) and was amazed at how nice and natural it sounds! One pointed to the bridge...one at the end of the fretboard above the soundhole and one sitting back a bit from the sound hole. Recorded into 3 seperate channels. Wow...it really DOES sound great!

Thanks for the explanation..............

Ken

[Cyrokk]

Originally posted by Wide Awake
Subscribing to a few good recording/music magazines helps a lot too. I've learned a lot from Electronic Musician and Sound on Sound magazines.

Unless the mags cited above are different from the other recording mags out there, I would actually stay away from subscription purchases.. I've come across maybe one or two things for the beginner per issue at most.. and that's usually buried in between articles filled with unexplained technical jargon that flies over the head of the beginner..

It may save you money to go to the store and flip through them.. buying only what you need..

Cy

[Kwong]

Originally posted by Cyrokk


Unless the mags cited above are different from the other recording mags out there, I would actually stay away from subscription purchases.. I've come across maybe one or two things for the beginner per issue at most.. and that's usually buried in between articles filled with unexplained technical jargon that flies over the head of the beginner..

It may save you money to go to the store and flip through them.. buying only what you need..

Cy

I am SO glad to see someone say this.....I thought it was just me! I find it very difficult to find information re: recording which I can easily understand the first time! Man.....there is SO much to learn!

Ken

[Cyrokk]

My first major home recording purchase was an Alesis ADAT 8 track digital multi-tracker.. I only knew some of the basics of recording but I was also extremely ambitious.. Anyway thanks to Guitar Center throwing me on a mailing list I was solicited for one of these mags (Home Recording I think it was).. I thought at the time that it couldnt hurt subscribing so I blew some cash on the subscription.. The only damn thing I can remember from it is that Alanis Morrisette's second album was recorded on the ADAT.. and Pet Sounds is considered a classic in the recording industry (don't like the Beach Boys.. so I really don't care)..

That's it.. now I'm stuck with a year's worth of old recording mags that I will probably never read but am afraid to throw away because something in the back of my mind tells me I may need to refer to them... I've looked through other mags at the book store.. same freakin' thing..

The best place to go is here.. and www.studiocovers.com (yeah.. check that sight out while you are around.. excellent coverage of basics)

[Kwong]

Originally posted by Cyrokk

The best place to go is here.. and www.studiocovers.com (yeah.. check that sight out while you are around.. excellent coverage of basics)

Cyrokk (???? nice name...)

Thanks.....I shall indeed go there and have a look. I guess I am just impatient. Have not been long at this and want to produce a professional sounding CD NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA!

Same same with my new bouzouki.....had a luthier build it for me and I want to be able to play like Andy Irvine or Donal Lunny NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! A shame one cannot have instant knowledge and talent, eh? That Vulcan mind meld thing from the old Star Trek shows would be lovely........

Ken......the saga continues........

[Cyrokk]

Originally posted by Kwong


Cyrokk (???? nice name...)

Thanks.. the name comes from the combination of me and my wife's original chat names: Cyboy and gigglerokk.. the online musical meaning just kinda came with the name..

Originally posted by Kwong
vThanks.....I shall indeed go there and have a look. I guess I am just impatient. Have not been long at this and want to produce a professional sounding CD NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA!...)

Just know that it will take some time to get to CD quality and youll be fine.. Perhaps the most important thing to focus on is that you should try to do your absolute best when recording the tracks.. strive for quality during tracking and you will have an easier time getting quality results..

Cy

[sondriven]

definitely get a pod and a ART Tube MP!

[corban]

Kwong, baby...

I know you think you don't like the Beach Boys, but you obviously haven't heard Pet Sounds. Give it a listen before you pass judgement on the genius of Brian Wilson. If you have given it an solid, unbiased, and unstereotyped listen, you're the first musician I've heard of who wasn't blown away, or at least somewhat impressed by the complexity and beauty of his songs.

[corban]

Sorry, Kwong, I meant Cyrokk

[Cyrokk]

corban,

I'm sure you, as well as those in the magazine, were right in considering Pet Sounds a recording masterpiece.. and if that album ever crosses my path I will give it a listen...

Just out of curiosity.. would you say that the album is better than the Beatles Sgt Pepper? I realize that this album is also considered a recording masterpiece and I don't doubt that.. But that happens to be, IMO, the Beatles worst album as far as songwriting.. Revolver was so much better..

I can't listen to a poorly written album regardless of how well it was recorded...

Cy

[Gidge]

The July 2001 issue of Electronic Musician has an article called "The Incredible Shrinking Studio" and compares many of the top digital recorders.....

[BBB]

I'm not that familiar with the Korg studios, but I've owned the VS-880 since around '97. It's an excellent piece of equipment and should be considered when deciding on a stand alone unit.

[corban]

Although I wouldn't use the phrase "poorly written album" to refer to any Beatles album, I have to agree with you that Sgt. Pepper was one of the worst. The only standout songs are A Day In The Life and possibly Good Morning (because of the time signatures), and if it wasn't for the "concept album" thing and the crazy orchestral stuff I'm sure it would regularly be ranked below Pet Sounds.

On a strictly songwriting basis, Pet Sounds far outshines Pepper, in both ingenuity and quality, but Pepper was a little more experimental and much more publicized, partly because it had the backing of the label, unlike Pet Sounds.

So the short answer is, yes I think Pet Sounds is better. I also agree that songwriting is far more important than recording quality. Any monkey with money can put out a good quality recording, a well written album is something special.

[Cyrokk]

Originally posted by corban
Although I wouldn't use the phrase "poorly written album" to refer to any Beatles album, I have to agree with you that Sgt. Pepper was one of the worst. The only standout songs are A Day In The Life and possibly Good Morning (because of the time signatures), and if it wasn't for the "concept album" thing and the crazy orchestral stuff I'm sure it would regularly be ranked below Pet Sounds

Funny though, a poorly written Beatle album would still be pretty good compared to all of the other work out there.. but anyways, I agree with you on the tracks you mentioned.. besides even if you don't like the songs.. you can always look at the cover art..

wait.. lol.. I've made that same comment about Led Zeppelin III..