vocals are far too quiet.

[Steenamaroo]

hey all!

i've spent the last hour reading through various pages submitted by people looking for tips on louder vocals,,

Basically,,,,tonight i recorded a song with a friend into,

sony vegas through digi001 using a rode nt1a to mic acoustic guitar and vocals, and a shure sm58 on a fender amp for some clean guitar.

i used some old drum loops i had from ages ago, and i have a pretty good mix of drums guitars and piano (yamaha clav via line out) going on,

i was comparing volume to a similar style commercial cd track throughout the process,,and i was on track.

then,,,,we laid down the vocals and they just weren't there,,,,,they were sooo quiet,


the input level was more or less the highest it could be without peaking (digi 001 channel one) and the singer was giving a good volume,,about 8/10 inches from the mic, standing between four makeshift walls of duvets and bedsheets.

i tried modest eq, and compression,,but it was just a waste of time,,,,nothing was gona get the vocals even close to audible,,,,,even if i solo'd the vocal,,,,it still wasnt getting up to a reasonable level without peaking,,so its not (completely) down to a heavy mix.

i'll do my best to post up mp3s, but can anyone offer any advice from their experience?

thanks everyone!

[gtrman_66]

Are you doing the acoustic and vocals on the same mic at the same time? If so, you might try adding a spot mic for vocals or tracking the vocals seperately later.

[Steenamaroo]

no,sorry,i was a bit vague there,,

started out with pre mixed drums, then recorded acoustic guitar, then piano melody, then extra guitar bits. the whole mix is generally quite light.

forgot to say also, i have played about with compression etc, and i still get no where near a usable volume.

[gtrman_66]

That's strange, maybe just getting a vocal tone that doesn't cut through well. I'd try moving the mic around a bit, maybe try it a little closer in,, make sure you use a pop filter if yu're getting close and direct.Maybe try a different mic and see if it's a better fit for the vocal.

Good luck.

[Steenamaroo]

yeah, all sound advice, and i'll be sure to play about with it in the morning, but its just strange cos i've had incredibly good results from that mic with the same singer, and i can't think of anything that i'm doing different,,,,but theres obviously something!

thanks for replying btw

[Rokket]

Ditch the walls of duvets and sheets.

Get yourself a pop filter. You can get on on Musician's Friend for less than $20.

Position the pop filiter about 4-6" from the mic, and the vocalist about the same.

Use some compression on the vocals when mixing down to tame the transient spikes and control the volume levels. This will also make it appear to be louder in the mix because it not only brings the loud passages down, it brings the softer ones up.

I hope this helps.

[Rokket]

Oh yeah, in place of the sheets and duvets, try putting the mic stand in a closet full of clothes. Works a bit better...

Or you can go through the pain of building a vocal iso booth...

[Steenamaroo]

ok, thanks! i'll take that all into account,
one question though,,,,,ditch the duvets? why so?

im in a cold brick wall garage,,,,and putting up the sheets seems to have really helped. would it have negative effects?

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by Rokket

Oh yeah, in place of the sheets and duvets, try putting the mic stand in a closet full of clothes. Works a bit better...

Or you can go through the pain of building a vocal iso booth...

See this post...

[RAMI]

One question:
When you say you can't get the vocals loud enough, do you mean you can't get the track to record at a decent level??? Or do you mean you're able to get it to record at a good level but can't them to cut through the instruments?

[Steenamaroo]

hi there,,,

thanks for responding,,

generally,,im not bad at getting the vocals to cut through and sit in the "right" place, but for some reason last night,,,,they just werent loud enough to even begin that sorta process.

on screen,,,,the looked like they were gona be a good volume,,,,but they just weren't,

im gona go outside and play around with this now that i'm home from work.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

1) Make sure you remember to turn on the phantom power.

2) Make sure you have the correct face of that NT1A facing towards the singer (don't laugh, it happens).

G.

[kessel]

If you have a limiter in your software plugins I would try that and just lower the threshold to the RMS level of your vocal track. If you have the waves bundle I would recommend the L1 ultramaximizer (a.k.a. the loud one).

[guitarboi89]

then turn down the other tracks relative to the vocals

[scrubs]

Originally Posted by guitarboi89

then turn down the other tracks relative to the vocals

What he said! If you're comparing to a commercial CD track that has been 'smashtered,' you're mixing too loud. Turn your other tracks down to fit the volume of the vocal. Add compression & EQ, if needed, to even things out and make the vocal fit in the mix. Leave volume for mastering.

[TragikRemix]

if you are doing all of the above correctly, throw a compressor/limiter on and learn how to manipulate it to raise the volume, although you've had to have made a slight mistake somewhere else in there.

[fishkarma]

is the mic properly plugged in? it happens!

[Steenamaroo]

ok,,,hey everyone! and thanks to everyone who wrote back,

phantom power is on, mic is the right way round and its plugged in ok

i think the problem might lie in what one of you said about trying to mix along side a "smashtered" track,lol,

so,,im just gona work on compression (and i do have waves) and lower the rest of the audio around it a bit, and see what i come up with,,


thanks again everyone,,,i'll let you know how i get on

[Steenamaroo]

ok,back again,,

looks like your advice was the way forward! got great volume out of it eventually,,,,

now we talk about tone <shakes head>

seems to sound really thin and weak, but i've done recordings with this singer and mic, and got a great tone (on tracks that were purely acoustic and vocal)

i'm just having trouble cos theres more to this mix,

and tips?

thanks again for the volume tips everyone

[fishkarma]

Originally Posted by Steenamaroo

now we talk about tone <shakes head>

seems to sound really thin and weak, but i've done recordings with this singer and mic, and got a great tone (on tracks that were purely acoustic and vocal)

i'm just having trouble cos theres more to this mix,

How much more? id be happy to help but are you doing drums bass and acoustic? or are you using a flute in this track a la jethro tull? let us know the instruments and what order you are mixing them in!
I'm sure you know this but its better to be safe than sorry generally you start with the drums, then the bass, then guitars and then vox

for guitars i highly recommend double tracking and using panning to give a wider sound

for the bass generally i DI it unless the bassist says they want to use their rig and dosnt like DI's (very rare but hey its their sound!)

doing vox i like to double/triple track quite tightly as it gives a "full" sound but thats your call, some songs just dont sound right like this but it can help!


can you give spesifics on whats wrong?
Good luck
-Josh

[Steenamaroo]

fishkarma,,,,thanks for that

the jist is,,,i'm doing this cd for a guy who plays acoustic and sings solo,

he wants it as realistic as possible so he can use it as a demo,,but two tracks out of the ten are needing drums


drums and acoustic and vocals sounded so empty,,,so we have added a gentle high piano melody and a slow plucked theme on midrage guitar (just in hte verses) and a basic acoustic guitar meoldy more or less throughout,


this is killin me,,,,anyone know where i can just upload this??


thanks again josh,,hope that infos useful.

[fishkarma]

Originally Posted by Steenamaroo

this is killin me,,,,anyone know where i can just upload this??

Yes make a soundclick account!!! Free and dead Handy

http://www.soundclick.com

[fishkarma]

Also on the piano a bit of verb can really fill out a track for the guitar melody i would have to hear it on songs thats really easy going a midrangy guita with delay and shit loads of over drive can actually sound good (believe it or not just listen to fear by Black Label Society- your taste or not tell me its not a laid back track using a guitar melody with loads of od its even done over a piano no drums) but then again if the songs too up beat the melody can sound great clean or god forbid with a touch of chorus
so i'd have to hear it im afraid
Good luck
-josh

[Steenamaroo]

ok josh,,,1st up,,i'm really glad you're here!lol,,

2nd,,,,im renderin down at attempt now to let you hear the score,,,

its gona be on myspace pretty soon,,,,ill link u asap

[Steenamaroo]

this should work, had to pretend it was a video

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oid=2017047743