A monk is trying to convert me to Analogism.

[Erockrazor]

I think I may be converted to analog. Bad timing now that analogs going out of style . I'm thinking of getting into analog by getting an 8 track recorder. I'm looking for 4 simultaneous tracks and some of that sweet tape sound. All of a sudden I've been craving to record analog. I want to feel the faders under my fingers and the pots. I want to get that analog feeling that digital doesn't offer. My friend records his stuff on a 4 track and I think it sounds excellent considering his equipment. The tascam 488 has struck an interest in me. I found a few on ebay and they're available at a price that I would be willing to pay. I am willing to buy used stuff as that is almost my only option. I don't want to really go higher than 400 max but if I could keep it lower I would be happy.

I dont usually like doing this and many people are frowned upon on the board for asking for direction as to what to get .. but I would like your help. Can you make any suggestions or recommendations from experience on some 8 track(or more) tape recorders. Is there even many options? Any more information is greatly appreciated. You guys are awesome. Erockrazor

[Good Friend]

TASCAM 388.

My friend has one that i donated to him. Its been said and said but let me say it again once ive said that its been said and said... it has the ease of use of a portastudio but the sound of a reel to reel. It also looks great and has two headphone jacks.

Also, less expensive tape.

[Erockrazor]

Originally Posted by Good Friend

TASCAM 388.

My friend has one that i donated to him. Its been said and said but let me say it again once ive said that its been said and said... it has the ease of use of a portastudio but the sound of a reel to reel. It also looks great and has two headphone jacks.

Also, less expensive tape.

That looks interesting. None on ebay at this time, I was looking for a little bit of a price range. They look a bit older than the 488 but also more elaborate. Interesting, thanks.

[Ding Dong]

good news! there is something speacial about analog- not only does it sound great, but you can see it working, which makes it funner to use in my opinion.
I know you want 8 tracks, but a 488 has a very thin amount of tape per track which isn't ideal (3/16" divided by 8). A four track cassette recorder will have a fuller sound and less hiss on a given track because each track will write on a wider strip of tape.
Consider a hybrid setup where you record drums/bass/guitar on tape, then dump it onto a computer and add vocals/guitar overdubs/other stuff in the digital realm.
also, a good mixer with lots of inputs and good pre's when used in conjunction with a humble four track can yeild great results. (use the expensive cassettes IMO)

or a get a 388.
or a TSR 8.
or a Studer.

[Erockrazor]

I like the sound of the 4 track hybrid idea. Is it possible to daisy chain 2 four tracks together. The options of currently produced 4 tracks seems to be pretty slim. Ill have to keep looking around. I dont know if I'm ready to go for a reel to reel but I was thinking of sticking with cassettes.

[Flangerhans]

You gonna be happy using tape, E. The first time you don't have to worry about your system deciding to get wonky while you're trying to lay down a track will fill your mind with a deep and abiding joy that is almost worth the ticket. Of course, you will find that every time you buy a new deck, a better one will beckon to you until you are looking at studers running 2", but that's the nature of the beast.
It is definitely possible to synch two 4 track decks together, you can use an external clock like sane people do, or you can do it my way and go bald and mad very quickly. If you are doing hybrid, a clock will help as well, but can be worked around.

[Good Friend]

If you want to stay with cassette you can go one of several ways.

There is a guy in England who makes surf revival music, actually its pretty authentic and arguably better than the originals, who uses a 4 track cassette and then bounces the rhythm tracks to a cd burner, then back to the machine. It may sound like a weird way with questionable results, but it definitely can work because i love the way the guys albums sound and i never feel like im hearing a casette recording. Its AMAZING production actually, just using a 4 track cassette and a cd burner. His band is called "The Space Agency" and its on myspace if you want to give it a listen, also excerpts can be found on his site, which you can get the link from his myspace page. Seriously check it out if you want to never doubt 4 track cassette again.

There is another way you can go, which is to use the cassette machine and send it to the computer to clean up the production. Which has benn mentioned. What id like to tell you is that i heard a FANTASTIC sounding album both artistically and sonically by a now split band from England called "Transelement". The album is called "8 Songs About Travel". I thought they did it in a big studio or something, but i talked with the guy in the band and they did it all on a yamaha cassette 8 track then cleaned the production up in a computer program. All tracks tracked on the cassette. They also used only 2 identical dynamic mics for the whole album. Dont let people fool you, there are differences in sound in different formats, but great songs and inventive production will always overcome.

[cjacek]

Erockrazor,

Are you dead set at getting a cassette based recorder or are you open to an open reel setup ? Whatever you get, I HIGHLY recommend you find something locally, either via eBay or craigslist.com, instead of getting something shipped. Where about are you located ?

[Bobby Darko]

Look for the tascam 688 (with manual!!). Far more options, better sound and cooler looks! for pics, see my myspace below...

[tapeboy]

Originally Posted by Ding Dong

good news! there is something speacial about analog- not only does it sound great, but you can see it working, which makes it funner to use in my opinion.
I know you want 8 tracks, but a 488 has a very thin amount of tape per track which isn't ideal (3/16" divided by 8). A four track cassette recorder will have a fuller sound and less hiss on a given track because each track will write on a wider strip of tape.
Consider a hybrid setup where you record drums/bass/guitar on tape, then dump it onto a computer and add vocals/guitar overdubs/other stuff in the digital realm.
also, a good mixer with lots of inputs and good pre's when used in conjunction with a humble four track can yeild great results. (use the expensive cassettes IMO)

or a get a 388.
or a TSR 8.
or a Studer.

Go for pure analogue or stay digital is my opinion. One or the other. Like their music or not but listen to the SOUND of The White Stripes 'Elephant'. All made on a one inch 8 track reel to reel then mastered to 2 track reel to reel. Invest in the vinyl version not the CD of course!

[_DK]

Originally Posted by tapeboy

Go for pure analogue or stay digital is my opinion. One or the other. Like their music or not but listen to the SOUND of The White Stripes 'Elephant'. All made on a one inch 8 track reel to reel then mastered to 2 track reel to reel. Invest in the vinyl version not the CD of course!

I'm afraid those LPs were made from a digital source though... all of the vinyl production is this way nowadays, which is really stupid. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I was getting a quote on the vinyl production pricing list at several big companies and all of them accept CDs only for the master. If you want a master plate to be from an analog source they charge you extra and you'd probably need to bring in your own machine to play the tape.

[_DK]

Originally Posted by Erockrazor

I think I may be converted to analog. Bad timing now that analogs going out of style

That's another good reason to switch to analog, because it's not only sounds right, but it's much cheaper today, than say... 20 years ago.

[Erockrazor]

Originally Posted by cjacek

Are you dead set at getting a cassette based recorder or are you open to an open reel setup ? Whatever you get, I HIGHLY recommend you find something locally, either via eBay or craigslist.com, instead of getting something shipped. Where about are you located ?

I'm not dead set on getting a cassette but I'm afraid that open reel will start to cost too much for me. I feel like the tape will end up burning a whole in my pocket and thats what I'm afraid of. I want to buy something that I wont have to keep putting that much money into. The 4 track reel to reel's look interesting. I have been looking at the cassette 4 tracks and my favorite has been the tascam 424 mkiii.

As for where I'm located, central new jersey. I was thinking of ordering off of ebay but you're probably right. These things are delicate and would be better off without some shippers tossing them around.

I think this is the most welcoming crowd on this board. I would like to honor you guys with the title of "Nicest to Newbies".

I'm really excited about getting into analog. Not only is it going to be something new for me, I'll be learning more of recordings roots and where it came from.

[_DK]

Originally Posted by Erockrazor

I'm not dead set on getting a cassette but I'm afraid that open reel will start to cost too much for me. I feel like the tape will end up burning a whole in my pocket and thats what I'm afraid of. I want to buy something that I wont have to keep putting that much money into. The 4 track reel to reel's look interesting. I have been looking at the cassette 4 tracks and my favorite has been the tascam 424 mkiii.

As for where I'm located, central new jersey. I was thinking of ordering off of ebay but you're probably right. These things are delicate and would be better off without some shippers tossing them around.

I think this is the most welcoming crowd on this board. I would like to honor you guys with the title of "Nicest to Newbies".

I'm really excited about getting into analog. Not only is it going to be something new for me, I'll be learning more of recordings roots and where it came from.

You wanna know how I started of? I got a nice Fostex 80, it's an 8 track running 1/4"... it came up for about $200 locally. Then I got 15 reels of Basf 468 (used ones, but near mint condition off ebay...almost locally too) for about $40.
Then I realized I need more headroom and got a 1/2" tape machine. You see where I'm going? If you're a maniac like I am, don't go there!

[Ding Dong]

Originally Posted by tapeboy

Go for pure analogue or stay digital is my opinion. One or the other. Like their music or not but listen to the SOUND of The White Stripes 'Elephant'. All made on a one inch 8 track reel to reel then mastered to 2 track reel to reel. Invest in the vinyl version not the CD of course!

I would love to have a studer half track to master to, and a machine to cut records right in my living room. I dont have the space or the money, as im sure is the case with many of us. Mastering to a second analog source does add even more warmth to the recording i agree, but now days your final result will be in digital format due to demand. I could give a great sounding cassette or 1/4" demo to a band whom i just recorded and i'm sure they would appriciate it, but eventually they will want a CD, as will many venues, record labels, and fans.
and by the way, putting something on CD doesn't instantly eliminate all the good sound you get from the tape. i think the CD version of elephant sounds pretty damn good too.

[Erockrazor]

Originally Posted by _DK

You wanna know how I started of? I got a nice Fostex 80, it's an 8 track running 1/4"... it came up for about $200 locally. Then I got 15 reels of Basf 468 (used ones, but near mint condition off ebay...almost locally too) for about $40.
Then I realized I need more headroom and got a 1/2" tape machine. You see where I'm going? If you're a maniac like I am, don't go there!

Such a great influence . I feel like getting a reel to reel is kinda jumping into the scheme of things just yet. Id feel more comfortable on a cassette. The learning curve seems to be a little smaller on a cassette 4 track than say a reel to reel four track. So I'm thinking, get a nice little 4 track cassette recorder and then if all goes well and I get addicted and need more equipment like some people (not mentioning DK's name and probably 90% of the people in analog section) then I'll step up to a reel to reel.

[A Reel Person]

The 424mkIII is small and light enough that it doesn't present a huge problem in shipping,... as long as it's boxed and padded well. The trouble starts when the unit becomes excessively large or heavy,... like a Tascam 38. Fostex R/R's are smaller and lighter, but are just as susceptible to damage (or more) by virtue of their panels being made entirely of plastic.

Then, in the final analysis, if a large/heavy unit is damaged in shipping, it's always the packer's fault. I've had a Fostex E-2 shipped to me, which is huge and heavy, but the packer did an exceedingly good packing job, so it arrived in as good condition as it left.

Even some of the weightier Portastudios are susceptible to shipping damage if not properly packed. I'd use extreme caution when buying/shipping anything along the lines of a 244/246/644/688 Portastudio, as they are heavier than most of the others.

[Ding Dong]

whats your budget? do you already have a mixer and decent mics?

[Erockrazor]

My budget, I don't want to get much higher than 200 dollars for an analog recorder. I donut have a mixer but I do have preamps and microphones. I'm still very interested in the 424 mkIII and they're going around maybe 125 used.

[cjacek]

Erockrazor,

You're located in a good place for local deals, even a drive when need be.

Going to open reel and associated tape costs is not as bad as you think. The biggest issue, imho, is getting one in decent, lower use condition, knowing what to look for and either learning or getting someone to bring it up to spec. Another biggie is surviving shipping damage. It's worse than you think and, as ARP already mentioned, it all rests with the packer. Avoid this route and prefer local pickups.

Buying long discontinued analog and its maintenance is much like buying a classic car, bought originally in the 1970's or 1980's. As I'm sure you'd agree, one has to really do his homework when getting into such a deal, not to mention bringing the recorder / mixer as close to factory spec as possible afterward.

Anyway, sorry for rambling but I support your decission to get a cassette 4 tracker. Amazing things are possible with such seeming limitations. Learn whatever you can with one, make sure you clean the heads (properly) after every lengthy rec session, use dbx but do not push the meters into the red and use the best cassettes you can afford, preferably 60 min or less.

I'd recommend you explore the open reel format when you feel comfortable going that route. It's pretty painless, when you know what you're doing and gets you more of that analog sound you crave.

BTW, if shipping is the only option, read this:

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=229729

With something like a cassette porta, it's much easier to pack right BUT rules need to be followed for a damage free ride.

[tapeboy]

Originally Posted by _DK

I'm afraid those LPs were made from a digital source though... all of the vinyl production is this way nowadays, which is really stupid. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I was getting a quote on the vinyl production pricing list at several big companies and all of them accept CDs only for the master. If you want a master plate to be from an analog source they charge you extra and you'd probably need to bring in your own machine to play the tape.

yes that's true. A parodox really isn't it?! I don't think that they are even equipped to do it even if you took your own tape machine along. It all ends up as files in their computer unfortunately. I heard of one man (Paul Gold, I think his name is) who will do it pure all the way through. But expensive I fear!

[cjacek]

I know that there are companies out-there who still press [LPs] straight from the analog master tapes or at least from good 2nd generation copies. Sundazed and speakerscorner come to mind but there are others as well who do reissues quite well.

[Beck]

You know, I read that as Anglicanism and I thought, "Doesn't this belong in The Cave?" Time to enzyme my contacts.

[cjacek]

I don't mean to hi-jack this thread but wanted to add another name to the analog masters direct to CD / LP. It's mobile fidelity, http://www.mofi.com/ They're still going strong and have some real nice offerings, like the John Lennon - Imagine discs. Pretty cool, especially that, from what I've read and actually heard, from both CD and LP, they're pretty anal about leaving the original masters alone, which basically means no shitty "digital mastering". Call me a CD convert but I really liked listening back to some of the reissues from MFSL and DCC. It's so different to the mainstream remastered shit outthere. Why couldn't it be like that with all CD's.... Just take an analog master tape and do as little to it as possible when transferring to CD, which is basically what DCC and mobile fidelity does (MFSL). The difference is striking.