How do you EQ your drums?

[Nick The Man]

i know i know i made the "how to get the kick to stick out in the mix thread"

but now im back again and just to ask how do you EQ your drums

when i track drums i do so as follows

Track 1: Snare Top

Track 2: Snare Bottom

Track 3: Kick--------------boosted around 80hz, cut around 250hz area, boosted around 2Khz

Track 4: Toms

Track 5: Overhead Left

Track 6: Overhead Right

I really cant get a nice snare sound but i think it has to do with my tracking ... its always there but its never anything special.. i know this is also a big tuning issue also but i really like the way mine is tuned right now and i cant seem to get a nice sound.

[Nakatira]

Its quite induvidual for me, as It varies from drumkit to drum kit, style to style.

The best is just gettin a drum kit that sounds great .


Btw I cant remember wich post it was but I`ve seen som great articles posted on Eq here on this board.

I think Glen have a nice graphic one on the mixing forum.

[Nakatira]

Here you go.


http://www.independentrecording.net/

[Ironklad Audio]

i eq to the kit, the player, and the subject material

[NL5]

Do you align your tracks? It will make a HUGE difference in the sound of the snare and the drums in general.

[Nick The Man]

thanks for that chart..very cool!!

NL5 i do not allign .. how should i go about doing this .. i find it hard because the kick and things bleed into other mics so it makes it tough.. but maybe im just doing something wrong, could you explain it to me?

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

Track 1: Snare Top

Little EQ, dependant completly upon the snare itself, the tracking and the mix. But the crack around 8-10kHz and the skin attack around 2.5-5kHz are often culprit frequencies for me to be either boosted or cut (a lot depending on how it needs to fit with the hat.)

Track 2: Snare Bottom

Mute. Get the top right first before you try bringing the bottom in. And if you get the top right, IMHO usually often you don't need the bottom, unless you need isolation from the hat.

Track 3: Kick--------------boosted around 80hz, cut around 250hz area, boosted around 2Khz

A lot depends upon the diamater of the kick and the type of heads used, but usually I find the cut to be more like 350-450Hz than 250. And if I want more punch, a boost of the attack around 4kHz or so often helps.

Track 4: Toms

No opinion; I rarely mic toms. Use your ear.

Track 5: Overhead Left

Track 6: Overhead Right

Varies entirely by kit, room, and drummer. Usually it's a matter of tounge and grooving the mids to fit the vocals.

G.

[NL5]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

NL5 i do not allign .. how should i go about doing this .. i find it hard because the kick and things bleed into other mics so it makes it tough.. but maybe im just doing something wrong, could you explain it to me?

The bleed into the other mics is WHY you do it. Give me a bit and I will try and explain it.

Check out this post (with an MP3) - there are 10 different people who mixed the EXACT same drum tracks, and he made an mp3 that progresses thru the 10 peoples tracks. It really is amazing how different they can sound. He happened to like mine the best, and I probably did the least to them besides time aligning the tracks and a smidge of drumagog.

edit - oops forgot the link -

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showpos...3&postcount=82

[Nick The Man]

wow yeah you can really hear the difference.. I'll be waiting to hear your explanation of aligning. I would also like to know how you apply drumagog too cause i know we talked about it on the other thread too... and i think my idea of drumagog is off..

[Nick The Man]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

Little EQ, dependant completly upon the snare itself, the tracking and the mix. But the crack around 8-10kHz and the skin attack around 2.5-5kHz are often culprit frequencies for me to be either boosted or cut (a lot depending on how it needs to fit with the hat.)Mute. Get the top right first before you try bringing the bottom in. And if you get the top right, IMHO usually often you don't need the bottom, unless you need isolation from the hat.A lot depends upon the diamater of the kick and the type of heads used, but usually I find the cut to be more like 350-450Hz than 250. And if I want more punch, a boost of the attack around 4kHz or so often helps.No opinion; I rarely mic toms. Use your ear.Varies entirely by kit, room, and drummer. Usually it's a matter of tounge and grooving the mids to fit the vocals.

G.

good post all good info thanks a ton NICE ROLL OVER CHART TOO VERY COOL

[NL5]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

wow yeah you can really hear the difference.. I'll be waiting to hear your explanation of aligning. I would also like to know how you apply drumagog too cause i know we talked about it on the other thread too... and i think my idea of drumagog is off..

I will try and explain this as much as possible - I kinda suck at explaining audio over the internet.

The pic below is the snare track, then the two OH tracks. I just zoomed in on a snare hit. I nudged the OH tracks so that the initial wave "pulse" starts at the exact same time. Now, I zoom in on the kick, and align it to the OH's. Then the Toms. Also, make sure that they are both going in the same direction when the "pulse" begins. You may have to reverse phase on on or more of the tracks.


On Drumagog, it really depends on what you are after. I like a pretty roomy "lively" drum sound, so I get most of my drum sound thru the OH's and room mics. So if I gog a track I usually go pretty heavy on the blend control. If you don't, you may want to shoot for more of a 50/50 type deal. Also, the gog itself makes a HUGE difference. I tend to use Andy Sneaps the most right now. It works great on ANYTHING with a little massaging.

Hope that helps.

[tarnationsauce2]

Aligning tracks is the best thing since sliced bread.
Just use the snare as the main thing to align to.

You must be precise, damn near to the sample. but when you do it, you'll hear a big difference in the impact of the snare.

I'll align every single track, even kick and toms to the snare. Well depending on the job and how much I'm making. You can get stellar results without aligning, but you get just a bit more punch when you do. It's worth it if you have the time and patience.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

good post all good info thanks a ton NICE ROLL OVER CHART TOO VERY COOL

Thanks, Nick; glad you liked it and hope it helps you out. And thanks to Nakatira for referencing/recommending it. Look next for a new interactive roll over chart dealing with gain structure and metering. Give me a week or three to finish that.

And, NL5, excellent point and excellent description of alignment. Pretty good for a guy who thinks he "sucks" at explaining.

G.

[Supercreep]

Search for "recorderman"

[ecktronic]

I used to allign my OHs up to my snare but when doing some work experience in a commercial studio the said he had never heard of that before. This wasnt something I read about then decided to try, just something I thought about and then always used it.
Funny to hear folk talking about it now.
So is this a common practice for mixing? Can aligning all the drums to the OHs not create an unnatural sound?

Eck

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by ecktronic

So is this a common practice for mixing? Can aligning all the drums to the OHs not create an unnatural sound?

Heck, Eck, sticking a mic on every drum in the kit and panning/fading/EQing them seperately creates an "unnatural sound". Replacing bad hits with Drumagag creates an "unnatural sound". Panning them across the entire pan stage creates an "unnatural sound" to anyone except a drummer.

But if you think about it, the alignment is only unnatural for any listening positions where the OHs are not basically the same distance from the listener as the drums. The alignment may seem unnatural from the POV of the OHs themselves, but to a listener standing in an audience in front of the drumkit, say, the drums and the OHs will all be perceived as being pretty much the same distance away from the listener, and alignment would be expected.

G.

[ecktronic]

Yeah your right Glen.

Eck

[NL5]

Originally Posted by tarnationsauce2

I'll align every single track, even kick and toms to the snare.

You really want everything in time with the OH's. Most of the time they are the only mic's running open all the time. Most of the others get enveloped or gated. Besides, the whole point is NOT to have two different attacks from one drum hit - aligning to the snare, you would still have two kick attacks, two tom attacks, etc.


I forgot to mention that I usually align the room mics a few pulses behind the OH's, so that they are still "pulsing" at the same time as the OH's, just not on the initial "pulse", if that makes sense.

Glen - Thanks!

[tarnationsauce2]

Originally Posted by NL5

You really want everything in time with the OH's. Most of the time they are the only mic's running open all the time. Most of the others get enveloped or gated. Besides, the whole point is NOT to have two different attacks from one drum hit - aligning to the snare, you would still have two kick attacks, two tom attacks, etc.


I forgot to mention that I usually align the room mics a few pulses behind the OH's, so that they are still "pulsing" at the same time as the OH's, just not on the initial "pulse", if that makes sense.

Glen - Thanks!

I know, it's a sacrifice (as many things are). I prefer the really full snare sound you can get that way.
I have aligned everything individually to the overheads before too.
Both give good results.
However when I reference the time on between the L/R overheads, I choose the snare. Since you have to choose only one instrument. It's more crucial with AB overheads.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by tarnationsauce2

I have aligned everything individually to the overheads before too.
Both give good results.
However when I reference the time on between the L/R overheads, I choose the snare. Since you have to choose only one instrument. It's more crucial with AB overheads.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here, t-sauce. You're saying you align everything, including the overheads, to the snare instead of aligning the snare and everything else to the OHs?

If so, as I understand it, the results would be the same as far as the pure alignment goes; everything is still lining up with each other. What would be slightly different is the timing of the overall beat. Aligning to the OHs would delay the beat by the amount of time it would take for the snare to reach the OH, but that delay would be on the order of two tenths of a millisecond or so, and therefore be inaudible.

So either I'm missing something, or I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Please straighten me out?

G.

[Nick The Man]

wow just got home from school and i see many formative posts, excellent description NL5 thanks for that.. one thing i don't understand is i see a lot of people saying, its a good idea if you have a lot of TIME or PAITIENTCE.. I don't see why it would take so long?? you zoom in on the snare and OHs and line one snare hit up and you've aligned them all, right? and then just repeat for the kick and everything.. i understand it would take a little time but it doesn't seem likes its as long as most describe it, but i don't know maybe I'm misunderstanding something?

[xfinsterx]

Send me the tracks for a section of the drums , and ill give you back some pics of the eq settings i come up with.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here, t-sauce. the results would be the same as far as the pure alignment goes; everything is still lining up with each other. So either I'm missing something, or I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Please straighten me out?

OK, now I don't feel so bad. I was going to ask the same thing. If one's lined up to another, what does it matter, other than shifting the entire track forward or back, what you chose to line up to??? Won't the snare, toms, kik, etc...be lined up either way???

[NL5]

Originally Posted by RAMI

OK, now I don't feel so bad. I was going to ask the same thing. If one's lined up to another, what does it matter, other than shifting the entire track forward or back, what you chose to line up to??? Won't the snare, toms, kik, etc...be lined up either way???

If you align the way tarnation stated, the Toms and the kick will NOT be in alignment with the OH's. It will Have zero effect on the snare hits (unless you run your tom and kick mics wide open thru the whole mix - which I can't imagine anyone doing), and sacrifice the benefit of aligning in the first place on all the drums except the snare.

Does that make sense? I have a hard time explaining things........

edit - the distance between the OH mics and the kick is different than the snare, and is different than the toms, so they can't be in alignment with the snare and the OH's at the same time.

[NL5]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

one thing i don't understand is i see a lot of people saying, its a good idea if you have a lot of TIME or PAITIENTCE.. I don't see why it would take so long??

It takes me less than five minutes - WELL WORTH THE TIME!