how to get the kick drum to stick out in the mix

[Nick The Man]

god no matter what i do the kick gets buried ... when i eq it i must be doing something wrong??? what do you do to make the kick stick out?

[zed32]

does it stick out in the room? does the kick sound OK by itself when solo'd but disappears in the mix? is the "boom" still there but it lacks the high end punch or something?

i'll usually use compression with slightly slower attack time, and EQ the high-mids until i hear it start to pop thru the mix. maybe try messing with the mic placement too, or mic the front of the kick to get more definition.


and i record with a crappy mic straight into my firepod and i can get a decent kick sound out of it with a bit of EQ and compression.

completely dry, the sound i get recorded can sometimes sound like a cardboard box, but you can tweak it to the point where it will sound decent in the mix. got an exaple that we can hear?

[RezN8]

Are you sure it's getting lost completely? have you checked the mix on different systems yet?

If so, first check it's phase. Then try to create a "space" for it with eq, panning, levels, etc.

What other tracks are making it disappear? Find the bass drum track's dominate freq. and maybe carve a bit out of the bass or guitars or even vocals tracks at that freq. Don't over due it though, just enough to unmask it.

If that doesn't get you closer, let us know.

[rgraves]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

god no matter what i do the kick gets buried ... when i eq it i must be doing something wrong??? what do you do to make the kick stick out?

Wow that's weird, I am always fighting with the kick being too loud.

You might be cutting it up too much, also, maybe try to cut bass guitar around the main frequency of the kick drum to allow it to come through. You might need to roll off frequencies on other tracks under 80 HZ or there abouts.

[RezN8]

.. and maybe try a little bump around 1.5 to 4k? How are you miking the kit anyway?

[Change of POETS]

Originally Posted by RezN8

What other tracks are making it disappear?

This would be my first action.

If you can isolate what other instrument is burrying the kick, then you can better decide how to fix it.

There's many ways you can do it, from carving frequencies around it, to sidechain compression, etc...

[Nick The Man]

ill put up a sample later.

Im using a Audix D6 inside off-center and about 5 inches away to record it. And then there is two overheads, a snare top and bottom, a floor tom, and just to try something new i put a LDC right over the two rack toms.

However, how do i find what its dominant frequency is?

I think it mainly gets lost in the bass and the guitar.

I'll get that sample going .. im gonna go eat some dinner and come back

thanks for all the help already

[NTK88]

Boost around 60-80 HZ, dip out 400 HZ, boost somewhere in 1k-3k your choice.

[Nick The Man]

uploaded a little sample here on soundclick

called kick drum

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...?bandID=644522

[ecktronic]

You need to make sure your drummer can hit the kick drum well and at a consistent level.
Then you need to use compression to tame those peaks. Any soft or too hard hits you want to replace with better hits.

Boost around 5K for slappy sound, 4K for more metal click sound.
Scoop your mids around 300Hx and boost low end if need be.

Or cheat and use Drumagog with some samples, and have your kick drum sounding like other peoples kick drums that use the same sample as you.

Keep it real(ish)
Eck

[Nick The Man]

lol i recently downloaded the drumagog plug in demo... i dont like it one bit its cheating in the worst way... so i dont use it, i was just curious

[chessrock]

From listening to some of your Soundclick samples ... it sounds to me like the main problem is inconsistant playing.

You can't just slam the kick for part of a song, and then barely tap it with a feather-foot the next bar ... and expect it to stand out all the time.

First, you need to play with some consistancy ... and then you need to do some generous compression / limiting to keep it at a more consistant level.

From there, it's all about how you tune your drum ... how tight / loose your heads are ... and what kind of beater you use. If you don't have enough beater slap going on, then it will very often get lost in a mix, as other things start piling on. The best way to get more beater impact is to loosen the batter-side head, use a wood / plastic beater (no felt), and play with a heavy foot ... like you mean it. Compressing with a slower attack time (with short release -- but not too short where you get distortion), can also do wonders.

.

[Nick The Man]

so i should compress it during mixing then so i can raise the level. and do some eq adjustments, i'll have to tell the drummers that come through here to play it hard.

[NTK88]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

so i should compress it during mixing then so i can raise the level. and do some eq adjustments, i'll have to tell the drummers that come through here to play it hard.

Yo where in WNY are you?

I downloaded your sample and yea the drummers hits need to be more consistant. Also the EQ adjustments I suggested sounded nice when I tried them. I boosted or cut the freqs by 3-6 db and reduced the volume of the track by about 12 db.

[NL5]

Originally Posted by ecktronic

Or cheat and use Drumagog with some samples, and have your kick drum sounding like other peoples kick drums that use the same sample as you.

Have you ever actually used drumagog? I use the EXACT same sample in almost every project, and the kick drums sound nothing alike.

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

lol i recently downloaded the drumagog plug in demo... i dont like it one bit its cheating in the worst way... so i dont use it, i was just curious

It's no more cheating than using effects on your guitar rig.......In fact, I'd use drumagog on a personal project before I'd use guitar "effects".

[Nick The Man]

Originally Posted by NL5

It's no more cheating than using effects on your guitar rig.......

i disagree because say your using a chorus pedal... (just a random choice) you still need to have a nice guitar and a nice amp to get a good sound ...


for the drumagog i could just clap my hands and turn it into a bass drum if i wanted too

[NL5]

Oh, and to answer your original question - as some have said, the inconsistency is somewhat an issue, but the soundclick sample certainly sounds usable to me. I normally spend close to 75% of my mixing time on drums. They really do take a lot of work to sound "pro". Do some reading. The few things I can say that help the most is 1) time align all the tracks 2)make sure they are all in phase at the initial wave from a hit 3)take your room tracks and compress the crap out of them, and tuck that track underneath to taste.

[NL5]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

for the drumagog i could just clap my hands and turn it into a bass drum if i wanted too

Nope. You are dead wrong. You really have no idea how to use drumagog properly then....... What you would get is "fake" drums. If used properly you would have "enhanced" drums, just like the chorus pedal would give you "enhanced" guitar.

[jonnyc]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

i disagree because say your using a chorus pedal... (just a random choice) you still need to have a nice guitar and a nice amp to get a good sound ...


for the drumagog i could just clap my hands and turn it into a bass drum if i wanted too

If you think it's cheating to replace or enhance drum sounds, then there are hundreds and hundreds of platinum records that people have "cheated" on.

[NTK88]

Aww I cannot use drumagog

I have aducacity, sound forge 8 and adobe and it doesnt work in adobe.
Will it work in the other 2?

[Nick The Man]

lol im sure many people have used it


im just not really into triggers.. didnt mean to offend anyone

[jmorris]

cut 200-450hz, somewhere in that range, thats were the mud is, compress 1.5:1...ish, boost 1800-2000hz and 3500-4000hz. BUT......you have to have a good sound in the first place! Shit in, shit out. Can't polish a turd etc.

[NL5]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

lol im sure many people have used it


im just not really into triggers.. didnt mean to offend anyone

They are certainly not a necessity, but they do help sometimes.

Try some of the stuff I mentioned above, if you don't do it already. It makes a HUGE difference in the sound of a drumkit.

ps - I'd bet you couldn't tell properly gogged tracks from non-gogged tracks. It's really is no different than guitar effects. Although I understand your point, because I just like to plug an LP into a Marshall and call it good..........

[Nick The Man]

Originally Posted by NL5

Although I understand your point, because I just like to plug an LP into a Marshall and call it good..........

lol yeah definitely thanks for the good advice.

[jmorris]

Originally Posted by jonnyc

If you think it's cheating to replace or enhance drum sounds, then there are hundreds and hundreds of platinum records that people have "cheated" on.

Silly statement. What do you think eqing or compressing is if it isn't "enhancing the drum? If drumagog is used properly it sounds great. In particular the stellar acoustic samples it has or the extras you can buy. If you have tried it and think it sounds poor, you did not use it correctly. I, in may cases BLEND the "real" drum with "fake" ( "fake" being...recorded by great engineers with great mic preamps in great rooms with great acoustic drums with about 5 high end mic's like Neumann etc) drumagog drum. Kick mostly