Help... Hats too loud

[Scoop]

Hiya...

We about to start tracking our 2nd album and a crit I have on the last one was the hats are too loud and gets worse when you push the tops on the snare in the mix.
Listening to RHCP Dani california the drum sound is GREAT, but how do they keep the hats so quite?
Usually track snare with sm57 on top... Will a 2nd sm57 underneath solve the prob?

Thanks a ton for your time...

[mrface2112]

don't hit the hats so bloody hard. that's how you keep the hats out of the snare mic. you crush the snare and barely touch the hats.

the RHCP tune sounds that way b/c chad smith is an excellent drummer and understands how to balance his kit.

the sm57 also doesn't have the best off-axis rejection.....and what bleed it lets in, IMO, isn't very good sounding. so you can try other mics if you want, but you'll be chasing your tail unless you fix the drumming technique in the first place.

the sm57 is a perfectly fine snare mic provided you've got a drummer who understands how to play drums.

another option is to replace/augment the snare hits with samples.


cheers,
wade

[rory]

Eh... I'd say its important to play with balance, but MORE important to have proper mic position. Play with the 57 to get a good sound and position it so that the hats are in the null so they don't bleed as much into that mic. I like putting a mic on the hats as well to have control over them. BUT, you need better positioning.

[NTK88]

Well I wouldnt go as far as saying you can't play the drums. How are you placing the mic? Try placing the mic facing away from the hi-hat facing towards the floor tom if you arn't already.

May try raising the hats as well?

Hitting a little less hard might work too.

I find that when recording I like the standard set up, but otherwise I have my kit set up as if I have a 2nd bassdrum, and my rack toms centered along with the snare right infront of me. I also play with ahead drum sticks but not on recordings.

I guess my point is in recording you have to make changes to your usually set up and ways sometimes

[gcapel]

I always close mic the snare away from the hi hat. If your still having a problem after mic placement, he is hitting them too hard or hitting them with a tree trunk. I would find the source of the loudness (oh's or snare mic). Hopefully you could just move some mics around.

[Poco]

I second Mr Face. The drummer speaks the loudest

Something else that I do to get less mic bleed is I don't use dynamic mics at all. I use very directional condenser mics, Shure PG81. A drummer I recorded recently brought his own kick mic, Shure PG52. I wanted to compare it to my Audix F12. The two sounded similar. Then we tried an MXL 2003, and the lights went on. This is a jazz application where the wood of the kick drum is desirable, so that may be why we liked a condenser over a dynamic, but have been using condenser mics on everything for some time. MXL 603S for overheads rock.

Poco

[RideTheCrash]

It's extremely important to pay attention to your playing when recording. I try to play consistently as possible and really lay into the snare for a good "crack", etc.

I've been recording some crappy metal band and the drummer has god awful dynamics and it can really hinder a recording when they beat the fuck out of the hi hats and then hit the snare like a wimp.

[Han]

The Beyer M201 is much more rejective than the SM57 and it has a nicer off axis response.

But the main problem is the drummer.

[monkeymanx]

Another option is trying to put a styrophone cup around the SM57 and aim it at the middle of the snare. I know it sounds odd, and sort of ghetto but hey it may be just what you need.

I always like recording my band better than others, because I can be more critical with them. I recorded a band this weekend and it is rough. It's hard to tell somebody to play their instrument differently.

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

the hats are always too loud. this is not a game, dawg. feel me?

[zacanger]

You could also try using different hats -- try thin crash cymbals, or mini-hats. Or try a bigger snare. Or learn some dynamics.

[deshead]

Here's an old thread on a similar topic: http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=210934

The consensus in that thread is the same as in this one: Get the drummer to play the hats quieter. Studio performance is inherently different than live performance, and cymbal (& hi-hat) technique is one of the main things drummers need to adjust based on the venue.

A few other things mentioned in that thread:
- Try different stick materials. Many find that maple sticks hit softer than hickory.
- Move the drum kit away from the walls.
- If the hats are mostly in the overheads, try a compressor with fast attack, rather than low-pass EQ, to reduce their level.

[emergencyexit]

What kind of hi-hats are you using?

[sweetnubs]

explain slowly so the drummer understands:

drummer not hit so hard high hat bang bang ok?!!

[EdWonbass]

Kit balance is one thing I notice with good drummers. I am not a good drummer and I tend to go heavy on the hats. The drummer in my band is great at kit balance. I bet I could just stick a mic in front of the kit and it would all work out. When I record myself I just try to not hit the hats as hard, hit the snare harder and position the mic so it doesn't pick up as much hi hat. That's really all you can do because once you lay it down there is only so much EQ and compression will do.