how to get your audio loud without...

[Nick The Man]

how do the pros get they're audio so loud without getting that sound of the compressor pumping. And their audio doesn't clip. I don't want to start the whole professional thing I'm just wondering if there is a tip or trick I'm missing. What are your steps when you start to master your track. Do you raise your volumes first?? Oh yeah just out of curiosity too, what does RMS stand for, i know what it is but i just don't know what it stands for.

[sunnydyz]

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_square
2. there's no magic tips for mastering, but i'm not pro so don't trust me

[tarnationsauce2]

RMS = Root Mean Square

As far as pumping goes. A lot of times a multi-band compressor is used. Especially for really loud stuff (~-12dB RMS). Or you might be hearing a stem mastered song.

Also, the settings are really important. As far as attack, release, threshold, etc. are concerned.

Another thing people do is use a compressor in front of a limiter. Letting the compressor's attack be slow and depending on the limiter to catch all the overs. But there is a fine line where this will sound like overcompressed shit.

Also, don't forget about Fletcher-Munsen curves. They're used more often than you'd think.

[LogicDeLuxe]

There sure is more than one way to do it. And unfortunately, they even sacrifice quality in many cases when doing this.

Shortening release times while compressing reduces pumping, but raises modulation at the same time.
Multiband compression can reduce the pumping alot, but also changes frequency distribution. This is pretty much overdone on many radio stations.
Slight distortion on peaks (mimicking tape saturation) can gain a few dB. HDCD is usually done that way, but not limited to that.
During boosting, you avoid clipping with a hard limiter.
The most brutal masterings are actually hardclipped a few dB, too.

It depends pretty much on the kind of recording which of those can be done without sacrifying the quality. You probably want none of them on a classic recording, while most of them might work on heavy metal to a certain degree.
I strongly recommend not overdoing this, though. Good masters are between -12 and -20 dBFS RMS sine. And there are CDs much louder, and they rarely really sound well. Don't emulate them!

[RAMI]

I hesitated to post because the real answer is, as you know, that there is so much to it, from the talent, mics, pre-amps, engineering skills, mastering skills and equipment, etc....

But I just wanted to say that if you use a decent mastering plug-in with a long release, it shouldn't really give you that typical compressor "pump". It might do other bad things, but a look-ahead compressor with a long release shouldn't really "pump" like a regular compressor. At least that's my experience.

[Nick The Man]

I'm using soundforge 8

i use the "wave hammer" (limiter) and then normalize it

[MadAudio]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

I'm using soundforge 8

i use the "wave hammer" (limiter) and then normalize it

Ughh, the Wave Hammer is almost as bad as using HarBal! It's a quick and dirty shortcut.

If your mix is fairly consistant (ie, no large random spikes throughout), using a limiter alone should be enough to bring the level up. Just make sure to have the auto-gain compensation checked. I usually set it to bring the level up to -0.2 dB.

[Nick The Man]

where is the limiter in soundforge.. i cannot find it
??

[RAMI]

It's in the MANUAL. Probably under the "Mastering" section.

[MadAudio]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

where is the limiter in soundforge.. i cannot find it
??

IIRC, Effects->Dynamics->Graphic

I can check for sure when I get home from work tonight.....

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

how do the pros get they're audio so loud without getting that sound of the compressor pumping.

Here's how I do it:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/peakslammer.html

--Ethan

[Nick The Man]

heres what i found

[Nick The Man]

that one ethan posted looks all to simple.. why arent they all like that?

[MadAudio]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

heres what i found

Yep, that's the one. You want to set the threshold to the average peak level of your mix, click the auto-gain box so it's on, then set the output gain to where you want it. You'll probably want to shorten the release time (lower left) - I'd start around 150-200ms and see how it sounds.

[MadAudio]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

that one ethan posted looks all to simple.. why arent they all like that?

You're joking, right?

[LIMiT]

My experience, if you're just trying to get the volume up without pumping, try using a couple of transparent compressors in a row, both only comping a db or two, then the limiter.

-LIMiT

[Nick The Man]

yeah im really brutal with compressors though.. this doesnt help lol ive read up on them but i cant seem to get a hold of them i try them and don't notice much difference and then i get discouraged

[Nick The Man]

Originally Posted by MadAudio

You're joking, right?

i downloaded the demo!

[MCI2424]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

how do the pros get they're audio so loud without getting that sound of the compressor pumping. And their audio doesn't clip. I don't want to start the whole professional thing I'm just wondering if there is a tip or trick I'm missing. What are your steps when you start to master your track. Do you raise your volumes first?? Oh yeah just out of curiosity too, what does RMS stand for, i know what it is but i just don't know what it stands for.

Squash the thing so it is a big DC level signal at exactly 0dbfs.

Can't get any louder than that, I assure you.

[Massive Master]

A monkey with a limiter can make *any* mix as loud as any other.

What it's going to sound like at those levels are another story entirely...

[LogicDeLuxe]

Originally Posted by MCI2424

Squash the thing so it is a big DC level signal at exactly 0dbfs.

Can't get any louder than that, I assure you.

Besides it's certainly not the way, pros do it, a big DC level isn't even audible and may be harmful for the amps and speakers.

The felt loudest possible is a full scale square wave at the frequency where the human perception is most sensitive. Should be somewhere around 3 kHz.

Technically, the loudest possible (ie. a sound having the most possible energy) is a fullscale square wave at the nyquist frequency, though you wouldn't hear much if anything at all, unless you use lo-fi sample rates. This also can damage the speakers.

[flatfinger]

Originally Posted by Massive Master

A monkey with a limiter can make *any* mix as loud as any other.

What it's going to sound like at those levels are another story entirely...

Actually, if you give a thousand monkeys a mix and give them a thousand of a good limiter to work with then you get one mix that is loud and sounds magnificent!!

[MCI2424]

Originally Posted by LogicDeLuxe

Besides it's certainly not the way, pros do it, a big DC level isn't even audible and may be harmful for the amps and speakers.

The felt loudest possible is a full scale square wave at the frequency where the human perception is most sensitive. Should be somewhere around 3 kHz.

Technically, the loudest possible (ie. a sound having the most possible energy) is a fullscale square wave at the nyquist frequency, though you wouldn't hear much if anything at all, unless you use lo-fi sample rates. This also can damage the speakers.

Who cares about the speakers? He wants to ROCK!
And, BTW THE pro way is to go like inf to 1 to another compressor and 20:1 to a limiter set at brick wall limiting, double the volume and burn that CD for prosperity. (be sure to set at 0dbfs)

Tip: You can hear DC. It sounds like one big gigantic POP!

But, it was all worth it. The CD will stand out in a changer.

[gcapel]

Originally Posted by MCI2424

Who cares about the speakers? He wants to ROCK!

Don't well all just want to rock every once in a while?

[Reggie]

Originally Posted by flatfinger

Actually, if you give a thousand monkeys a mix and give them a thousand of a good limiter to work with then you get one mix that is loud and sounds magnificent!!

But for how long do the monkeys work? How does 1,000 years sound?