Masking tape on the mixing board....

[mattkw80]

Possibly a dumb question.......


but when you guys get the masking tape out, and label your tracks on the mixing board "Vox1, Vox2, BASS, Snare, Gtr1, Kick, OH, etc." is there any "universal" way of assigning tracks to instruments.

For example.... do you always try to assign the bass to track "5", or the Lead vocal to a specific spot ??

Just wondering, because if there is a "universal" way of assigning tracks, I'd like to know it.

I helped do live sound for a Pearl Jam tribute band once - and the sound guy's rule of thumb was we went from Left to Right, as mic's were placed on stage.


Do you guys have any 'set' ways of assigning tracks, or know of anything to consider when doing so?

[Change of POETS]

For me, it depends on what I'm doing. Live sound is different than recording for me...

Live sound, I try to list mics first, from left to right. Then I add in instruments based on stage placement... Guitar, bass, drums, keys, piano, etc...

But as far as an industry standard, I don't believe there is one. Do what works best for you.

[LeeRosario]

Originally Posted by mattkw80

Possibly a dumb question.......


is there any "universal" way of assigning tracks to instruments.

Well not so much a universal thing, but a general approach that you see commonly. I always saw it like reading a book left to right, my foundation tracks starting on the left. It's just easier building up a mix from there. You don't waste time flying up and down a console to mix a kick and a bass guitar.


Originally it stemed from the track bleed over issue that comes up working with analog tape. Also, it's just really stems from the order in production. I mean, it was more of a hassel to rearrange tracks on tape. So the order in which things where tracked stays for the most part.

You also ran the risk of tracks bleeding over to the next track, which depends on the frequency content on that specific track.

It's in that occurence that you started seeing people sorting things out by frequency content.

So you may see the Kick, Snare, Toms together at first with the hi freq stuff (cymbals) at the end of that group. Of course, that's not the case anymore in the digital realm.

[mattkw80]

Wow.... I thought I was asking a dumb question, but I'm glad I asked.... sounds like there ARE different reasons people assign the various tracks to various instruments.

(I never thought of the analog tape overflow problems...)

Originally Posted by LeeRosario

Well not so much a universal thing, but a general approach that you see commonly. I always saw it like reading a book left to right, my foundation tracks starting on the left. It's just easier building up a mix from there. You don't waste time flying up and down a console to mix a kick and a bass guitar.


Originally it stemed from the track bleed over issue that comes up working with analog tape. Also, it's just really stems from the order in production. I mean, it was more of a hassel to rearrange tracks on tape. So the order in which things where tracked stays for the most part.

You also ran the risk of tracks bleeding over to the next track, which depends on the frequency content on that specific track.

It's in that occurence that you started seeing people sorting things out by frequency content.

So you may see the Kick, Snare, Toms together at first with the hi freq stuff (cymbals) at the end of that group. Of course, that's not the case anymore in the digital realm.

[TragikRemix]

heh..

if i have enough channels (live this is)

1- lead vox
2-4(if needed,) other vox, left to right.

5-guitar lead
6-second guitar
7-8 third guitar/bass if needed

9 kick
10 snare
11-13 toms l to r
14-15 OH l-r
thats like perfectly in a 16 channel board, at the most really. sometimes i will mic the guitar amp and also have a direct line, same with bass.

occasionally, ill only have like 1 guitar and 1 vox, with 1 bass, and like 6 or 7 on drums. then we leave alot space between them.

[xstatic]

There is a sort of universal standard when dealing with live sound that is. It typically goes....

Kick, snare, hat, small toms to large toms (assuming a standard setup), Overheads, Bass, Guitars from house left to house right, acoustics, vocals (house left to right again). Percussion usually follows drums in this scenario, but depends on the layout, and keys usually follow guitars. Most engineers follow a setup very similar to this. that type of repetition makes it very quick and easy to find stuff on a console. Especially when you are using a different console every night. In the studio I typically try and follow a similar pattern due to years of operating like that and having a large console with a fully equiped patchbay.

Also, I only use masking tape if I absolutely have to. Usually I use board tape, and if I am out of that, white gaff tape. I would NEVER use masking tape on my studio console though.

[TuoKaerf]

On the board, I usually organize left to right.

Kick
Snare
HH
Toms
OHL
OHR
Room
Bass Gtr
Keyboards
Gtrs
Other junk
Vox

I second the board tape bit, xstatic. Usually a light sticky tape, or a grease pencil if they have a plastic strip.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by Change of POETS

For me, it depends on what I'm doing. Live sound is different than recording for me...

Live sound, I try to list mics first, from left to right. Then I add in instruments based on stage placement... Guitar, bass, drums, keys, piano, etc...

I was going to say prety much the same thing for live, keeping the tracks pretty much aligned as they physically are on stage is handy and intuitive...unless the board is not facing the stage (not uncommon for my portable rig.)

There is also the method of ordering the tracks in the order in which you're laying them out on tape (for analog, often LF stuff like kick and bass on the outside/edge tracks with the HF stuff more towards the center; for digital, a bit more arbitrary.) The DAW version of this is to lay out the mixer tracks in the order you're laying them out in the DAW.

For those really in tune with their gear more than their gear is in tune with itself, tracks can be laid out because certain strips may sound better for one thing than for another. This is a bit rare in the home project studio, but on some bigger/older desks in various states of aging or refurbishing, you might find that different channel strips have slightly different tonal qualities.

There is no standard; do whatever works best for you.

G.

[tarnationsauce2]

I use white 3M vinyl tape and mark it with Sharpies. I have a few different colored Sharpies for color coding if need be. For instance I use black for partitions, red for tracking, and green for monitoring chanels.

The vinyl tape leaves no residue and can be "erased" with isopropyl alcohol.

Masking tape is not good to use because of the residue it leaves and it tears easily. And if left on for a long time the adhesive turns to powder. Nasty stuff.

[SonicAlbert]

Yes, do not use masking tape on your console. It will leave a sticky residue and if you leave it on long enough will be hard to get off.

You can find something called "console tape" at stores like Markertek. It can be peeled off without leaving any residue and is indeed designed for just this purpose.

[Elton Bear]

I don't bother with tape in the studio, if I need to know what's on a channel I just solo it. Live is a bit different, but I always set the channels the same way:

Bass Drum (I don't like calling it a 'Kick')
Snare
Hi-Hats (If I mic them, which is rare)
Toms (Small to Large)
OH Left (from drummer's POV)
OH Right

Bass
Guitar(s)
Keys (again, rare)
Horns (A little more regularly)
Vocals (Studio I do lead, then main backing, 2nd backing etc., live is front house left-front house right)

Percussion, Gang vocals, synths, ambience, singing ducks etc. come after all that lot.

[Harvey Gerst]

As a small historical note, the practice of putting the kick or the bass first (and last) came about in the analog tape days. The outside tracks of the tape are more prone to flutter and high frequency loss than the inside tracks, so we'd put things with less high frequency content on the outside tracks.

As far as tape on the console, there is "artists tape" available at most art supply stores that doesn't leave a sticky residue.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Harvey Gerst

As a small historical note, the practice of putting the kick or the bass first (and last) came about in the analog tape days. The outside tracks of the tape are more prone to flutter and high frequency loss than the inside tracks, so we'd put things with less high frequency content on the outside tracks.

As far as tape on the console, there is "artists tape" available at most art supply stores that doesn't leave a sticky residue.

Harvey,

Wasn't the SMPTE track also reserved for the outside (usually last) to help prevent crosstalk to two adjacent tracks? There is also the issue that the outside edge of an analog tape is more prone to damage.

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

Harvey,

Wasn't the SMPTE track also reserved for the outside (usually last) to help prevent crosstalk to two adjacent tracks? There is also the issue that the outside edge of an analog tape is more prone to damage.

Yup, to both points.

[TuoKaerf]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

Harvey,

Wasn't the SMPTE track also reserved for the outside (usually last) to help prevent crosstalk to two adjacent tracks? There is also the issue that the outside edge of an analog tape is more prone to damage.

Yes. You also want to avoid placing anything with fast transients (such as a kick or snare) next to a piano or vocal track.

[FattMusiek]

I've seen staff engineers start with the kick mic, then the kick outside mic, snare, snare bottom etc. Another rule of thumb I've come across is to place overheads starting on an uneven number due to "odd even panning". For instance, overhead left on 7 and overhead right on 8.

[xstatic]

Out of curiosity, how does starting the overheads on an odd number change things? If you are routing it to groups, you could still pan the odd over head to an even numbered buss.

[TuoKaerf]

Anal retentiveness.

[Light]

Originally Posted by mattkw80

Possibly a dumb question.......


but when you guys get the masking tape out, and label your tracks on the mixing board

NEVER use masking tape. Use artist's paper tape. It's more opaque, so you can read it easier, but more importantly, it's adhesive doesn't leave the nasty residue you get from masking tape. Yeah, it's a little more expensive, but it's worth it.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[Light]

Originally Posted by mattkw80

Do you guys have any 'set' ways of assigning tracks, or know of anything to consider when doing so?

Oh, and to answer the question, it depends on what I'm doing. If I'm on a center master section console (and I usually am), then I want the most important stuff directly to the right of the master section, so it is right under my right hand when I am in the "sweet" spot (or, in live work, when I'm right in the middle of the console, where all the VCA's and the Matrix are). So, that would usually be vocals on those channels, but it depends on the show. Other than that, I prefer to start stereo pairs on odd numbers, but just because I've worked with some DAW's which will only pair stereo tracks that way. Other than that, drums usually go to the left of the board because they do. No real good reason, just habit. Everything else just sort of falls into place as it sees fit. If I've got them, most of the "active" mixing work takes place on the VCA's anyway, so once sound check is over, it's not that big of a deal where you put things. The exception is on digital consoles where you have to use pages. Then you want to group things on each page that make sense, but you want all your most adjusted stuff on the same page.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[mikeh]

Light has a good point about having the "important" tracks located where you can get your hands on them easy.

In my case since I use a 32 channel board - I try to keep the stuff I have to manually fade in the middle and the stuff I don't have to work with on the ends.

I have the bass guitar on the far left (channel 1) followed by kick, snare, hats, toms and cymbals. Once I get those dialed in I normally don't need to work the faders much.

As I get closer to the middle (say channels 10 though 20) of the mixer I group the vocals together (since these often need some manual tweaks on the faders) followed by the guitars (which may need to be manually faded). Lastly I have keyboards to the far right (since many keyboard sounds are not overly dynamic and require little fader action).

There is no right way or wrong way - it's really a matter of what works best for the person at the board.

[xstatic]

There are definately good reasons for setting things up in different ways as mentioned above. After doing things for years in nearly the same fashion, I have found that I like the traditional setup the best because regardless of what channels may or may not need adjusting, I have found that I get to them faster if they are set up in the standard fashion I mentioned above because I can get to them without much thought at all. In the studio I do not worry as much about that because nothing needs to be done that quickly. Live however, there is a good reason why 90% or more of engineers use an almost duplicate method of setting things up. Familiarity equals speed. Especially if you have a lot of changeovers.

[MessianicDreams]

well this is how i do it (strictly live speaker):

working from left to right (ch1-ch24 or wtv)

kick
snare bot
snare top
hats
RT1
RT2
Floor tom
OHL
OHR
percussion
bass
electric guitars as the appear on the stage (left to right)
acoustic guitars
Keys
lead vox
BVs

i'll also immediatly set up some VCA groups:

Drums
Guitars
Vocals



of course, it will vary depending on the band and the console, but by and large thats what i do.

why?

cause it just makes sense to me to do it that way, it's the way i'm used to working and the way i work the fastest!

[joswil44]

It seems logical to do live as explained from Left to Right stage.

For Recording I go from Ground up by drum size and its easy to remember.

Kick or Trigger Module
Snare (Not in order by size but seems logical to keep it after the kick)
Largest Floor Tom
Smallest Floor Tom (If applicable)
Right rack or mounted Toms
Center Rack or Mounted Toms (If applicable)
Left Rack or Mounted Toms
High Hats
Any other Rides or Ambient Mics
Overhead Left
Overhead Right