why am i still getting phase cancellation?

[mixaholic]

i have a set of vocals and i wanted to try that fattening technique where u send the dry signal 100% into one speaker and u send the 30ms delayed signal 100% into the other speaker so why am i still gettin phase cancellation. i read in alot of books that such as "the art of mixing" that this if vocals are delayed to 30ms it won't cause phase cancellation. any idea why it's doing this? P.S. ive tried this technique on over 20 different vocals just to make sure that it wasnt that paticular set of vocals cause the phase cancellation. thanks for any feedback guys!

[Nick98338]

Yea, I tried this, too. About 7 months ago, when someone wrote about it here. 10ms, 15ms, 20, 30... tried adding some pitch adjust... tried standing on one foot... none of it worked. I got much better results just experimenting with reverbs that add "room effects". A lot easier, too.

[bennychico11]

30ms shouldn't give you a phase problem...it should be giving you a delay sound instead. It'll be a strange, wide stereo thing.

What happens when you sum to mono? Are things canceling? Or do they just sound kind of echo-y?

[mixaholic]

thanks for the feedback. yea things are cancelling when i convert it to mono

[bennychico11]

give us step by step what you're doing when you route the signal two different places

[ofajen]

Originally Posted by mixaholic

i have a set of vocals and i wanted to try that fattening technique where u send the dry signal 100% into one speaker and u send the 30ms delayed signal 100% into the other speaker so why am i still gettin phase cancellation. i read in alot of books that such as "the art of mixing" that this if vocals are delayed to 30ms it won't cause phase cancellation. any idea why it's doing this? P.S. ive tried this technique on over 20 different vocals just to make sure that it wasnt that paticular set of vocals cause the phase cancellation. thanks for any feedback guys!

For percussive sounds and note attacks, it will sound like a short, discrete delay. For longer, steady tones, phase cancellation effects will still be there, when you combine the tone with a delay. Please bear in mind that combining a signal with a 30 ms delay of equal level will produce complete cancellation for a tone with a period of 60 ms, which would be about 16.7 Hz, and partial cancellation near that frequency. Then there will be a series of such cancellations at higher frequencies (keep adding 33.3 Hz to get the higher nulls).

That's a classic comb filter effect, produced by combining a signal and a delayed version together. At least the nulls are relatively close together, compared to a 1ms delay, for instance, which would produce broader nulls at 500 Hz, 1500, 2500, etc. The fact that you have the signal in separate channels won't entirely prevent this: to a significant degree, the two speakers will basically add at the mix position, sometimes in and sometimes out of phase.

Cheers,

Otto

[MCI2424]

Originally Posted by mixaholic

i have a set of vocals and i wanted to try that fattening technique where u send the dry signal 100% into one speaker and u send the 30ms delayed signal 100% into the other speaker so why am i still gettin phase cancellation. i read in alot of books that such as "the art of mixing" that this if vocals are delayed to 30ms it won't cause phase cancellation. any idea why it's doing this? P.S. ive tried this technique on over 20 different vocals just to make sure that it wasnt that paticular set of vocals cause the phase cancellation. thanks for any feedback guys!

If you don't set the delay to 100% wet (not a mix of wet/dry) you get phase cancellation.

I assume you are using hardware, but software plug-ins may have the same wet/dry mix.