soundproofing help, please!

[lowendrick]

Hi

I am new to this forum. Stumbled across it in my search to learn more about soundproofing my home studio. You guys really seem to have tons of knowledge about studio design. Any help would be appreciated.

I have read http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
and have found it helpful, but now I am stuck with some questions and no one to ask.

I recently put an addition on my house and in doing so attempted to build a soundproofed rehearsal space. The room has 2 sets of walls with insulation between and layers of sheetrock and soundboard. The ceiling has the same. The window has a plug built of plywood and insulation. There are double doors.

Now here is where the problem starts. I think I made a big mistake in installing recessed lighting. I thought it would OK because there is plenty of insulation around the cans. Also I used the kind of cans that are typically used for showers where there is a lense. I think sound is leaking from the lights anyway although I am not sure because there is nothing else in the room yet. I am wondering if more soundproof material will remedy the leakage whereever its coming from.

The room is not complete. I have not yet put down the rug or moved furniture in. I still have to figure out what other soundproofing material I need to put on the walls and ceiling. Is it possible that this additional material will sufficiently soundproof the room? How much wall or ceiling space does this material have to cover? Will the recessed lights forever create problems or is there a solution?

Thanks for helping a newbie. I spent a ton on this room and do not want to make any more mistakes.

Rick

[lowendrick]

I guess my thread didn't spark much interest.

Either way I think I'm in good shape. A certain well-known pro with the initials E.W. happens to live close by and stopped in tonight to provide some consultation.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I guess my thread didn't spark much interest.

It was competeing with the Superbowl drivel.

Just kidding. Ok. Lets get to the point.
Afterthefact trouble shooting of DIY interpretation and design of isolation assemblies is difficult at best, impossible without fully understanding what has been built, how it is built, and what your goal is.
From what you have told us, I gather you hear transmission occuring from some point in your studio to some point outside your studio. Which direction? Outside noise comeing in, or inside the studio sound transmitting outward. What frequency band is dominant? What SPL are you trying to achieve in your control room without transmission occuring...etc etc.

Now here is where the problem starts. I think I made a big mistake in installing recessed lighting.

Most likely. But where do you hear the transmission occuring, and where is the sound source? Perhaps posting a plan showing where the sound is produced, and where you are trying to keep it from getting to. Thats all I can offer for now. Info is king when it comes to transmission loss.
fitZ

[bpape]

If you put in IC rated cans (assume they are) and you can get to the attic above, you can build MDF boxes around the cans and seal them up to minimize the loss through those openings. This is a common thing to do in the home theater construction market.

Just make sure you give it enough room to breathe a bit and fill the box with insulation and caulk it up tight.

Bryan

[lowendrick]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not great with all the terminology, but I will do my best to describe the variables you inquired about.

Directly above this music room is my children's rooms. The sound is leaking out of the music room and into the children's rooms. I believe the biggest problem is that the ceiling is not decoupled and thus the 2 layers of sheetrock, 1 layer of soundboard, and insulation don't help all that much. As E.W. showed me the problem seems to be more in the vibration.

Last night we experimented with sound from below and could detect no difference when someone yelled from directly below one of the recessed lights vs directly under sheetrock.

The suggestion I got for improvement short of tearing the whole thing down and starting from scratch was to add another layer of sheetrock to the ceiling with green glue applied as a layer sandwiched between.

Either way, I am also going to seal the double doors and add a saddle made for soundproofness (possibly from zero international).

I am not looking for 100% soundproofness, but it needs to be much better than it is currently. If I could get it down to a low muffled sound (for those upstairs) when playing acoustic music I'd be happy with that.

thanks

[Ethan Winer]

Hi Rick,

> A certain well-known pro with the initials E.W. happens to live close by and stopped in tonight to provide some consultation. <

Anyone I know?

Last night I promised to send you a drawing showing the isolation you can expect from various wall constructions. Here's that drawing:



Again, I'm not sure where your weakest link is, but banging on the walls and ceiling with your wife listening upstairs will probably help you find out. Also, doing the same "yelling" loudly into the recessed lights versus yelling at the ceiling away from the lights might help determine if the recessed lights are the weak link.

Let us know what you find out.

--Ethan

[lowendrick]

Thanks for the help Ethan. I believe our walls are a hybrid of the STC 57 and 63. The only problem is that they are not entirely isolated from each other.
They meet, for example, at the door jam. But the outer hallway is not much of an issue. Its the ceiling that leaks into the kids' rooms.

Right now I am thinking that my best fix might be the added layer of sheetrock on the ceiling with green glue. But at the same time I want to make sure I insulate and seal the electrical panel, window, and door so I know that they are not contributing to the leakage.

Thanks so much for the help!

[chestwick91]

i didn't readthe whole thred (sorry i am busy) but i noticed that you said you didn't want the place 100% sound profed (because you don't) if your tracking drums (or not) you might want to get some defuisers for the overheads, and abouve th mix position

[Dani Pace]

You mentioned something that caught my eye, you are working with basicaly a bare room atm, right? Viberations are much more noticeable in a bare open room than in a treated one. When you get around to adding bass traps (I assume you plan to treat the room) you should notice quite a difference in the viberation/sound transmission. I thought my room was pretty tight, although a little boomy so I added bass traps. I was pleasantly surprised to find this not only cut way down on the boominess but it also quietened the room as far as sound transmission to the outside. Anyway, listen to that E. W. guy, he knows a lot about this sort of stuff.

[bpape]

I don't want to be a stick in the mud but you can add mass and isolation all you want - and it will help - but until you deal with the can lights (which are basically nothing more than huge holes in the ceiling acoustically) you're going to have noise transfer.

Bryan

[lowendrick]

Ethan suggested (read above) testing out the difference between noise right below one of the cans and noise anywhere else under sheetrocked ceiling.

Well, we tried this. My wife went upstairs to my son's bedroom right above the music room. I stood on a stool and shouted first under one of the lights and then under a section with no light. My wife said she noticed no difference at all. Then we switched and I too noticed no difference.

But either way, if I add another layer of mass with green glue I will be doing away with the cans and going with track lighting so this will become a non-issue.

Assuming I will be doing the extra layer/green glue thing I am going to wait till the spring anyway when the ventilation can be better (too cold to keep windows open now). In the meantime, I am going to add aurelex foam to the 2 sides of the window plugs and the door to the electrical panel. I am also going to add weatherstrip, a saddle, and foam to the double doors. Finally, I am going to add treatment to the room as well (I'm going to review auralex products with a dealer today).

I am curious to see how the room sounds and if there is a difference in soundproofing after all the auralex and door stuff, even though Ethan said that no amount of foam or traps in the interior of the room is going to make a difference in soundproofness. But the room needs to be treated either way, and I am waiting till the spring for the added layer on the ceiling. It'll give me a chance to draw my own conclusions based on personal experience. Just wish I would have decoupled the ceiling in the construction phase. Live and learn I suppose.

thanks for the suggestions.