sorry - another monitor question:

[Greg_L]

I've spent the better part of the past week and this morning reading through GOBS of posts and threads regarding monitors. All good info, but I'm still just as confused. I need monitors and have no idea what to buy. Here's my info, please bear with me:

I record/mix in a pretty small (14x14) square-shaped room with a ceramic tile floor. I do plan to make/buy bass traps for the corners directly in front of where the monitors will be. I use a Firepod interface. Right now, I'm mixing through headphones, and while I've adapted to them and have made some decent mixes, it's still a lot more time consuming and trial-and-error than I think it should be. Mixes that sound good through my headphones usually end up low-heavy on other systems, so I have to compensate while mixing and just take a guess at how much lows it will need. Not good. Anyway, I'm pretty sure proper monitors and room treatments will fix this problem.

So, having said all that, what do I need to look for?

I'm thinking a nearfield, powered type monitor? I'd rather not by monitor amps and stuff. I'm pretty dumb at this, so I'd like something I can just plug in and go. Maybe in the 200-400 dollar price range?

Please give me some ideas given my room size, price, and setup needs.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Greg

[zed32]

with your square room, treatment is essential. and you would definitely want to go with nearfield monitors, and powered would be the easiest. you might want to save up so you can do the treatment and get the monitors at the same time. if you get the monitors first, and then get used to them, once you treat the room, everything will probably end up sounding different, and you might have a hard time getting re-acclimated to what you're hearing from your monitors.

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Greg:

Might as well skip all the upgrades and buy a pair of Adam7s. They will serve your purposes for a long time. Going price at ALL vendors at this moment is 1k. Quality is good, although I have read some cons about them.

But, his beginning level for Adam monitors is IMHO a good way to go. I'll be going there soon.

Green Hornet [Most vendors will give you free shipping on this item.]

[DAS19]

I dont think your first pair of monitors should be 1k dollars and someone shouldnt be recommending them that doesnt have them.

But that could be just my opinion.

[Greg_L]

Lol. Theres not a snowballs chance in hell I'm spending a grand on monitors. I'm sure they're awesome, but surely someone has a better recommendation than that. Anyone? Bueller?

[COOLCAT]

I think the 1K is just a suggestion that would leave you out of the monitor shopping for many years.
I read this too when I was searching for my first monitors and now, just like GH and many have said, I'm witnessing the same thing now. Its right around $1K to go up a level again. And I can hear little subtle improvements and clarity things.

Of course most can't afford $1K starting out, and probably can't even hear the "big deal" of the Dyn's versus the Yorkvilles yet, as in my case, or the Behringer 2031A's and Mackie 824, etc..etc.. or the KRK V's versus the KRK RP's.. not 3x's the $$$ worth.

My 2 cents(which is actually worth about 4 cents due to the price of copper)

...do two things at once.

1) do some traps like Ethans 703 type immediately. include this work in with your monitor purchase, equally important. Layout your room while you do the monitor brain fry shopping.
the room is going to be a huge effect on your monitoring system initially, you don't have to go crazy while your trying out your final 3 or so final contenders.

2) Get a few sets home and at a minimum play your known cd's thru them.

oh er....

3) Do Not listen to the DYN BM5A and LSR 6" JBLs or you'll walk around in a stupor trance wondering how you can obtain this, as if its a challenge from the Monitor Gods for you to acquire them but yet you must climb the mountain first or at least have a garage sale. ....hehee

[Greg_L]

Okay thanks for the replies fellas. I've been researching room treatments, and it seems that I'd really need to focus on the corners of the room. My room is pretty dead-square. But, not having ever used monitors in here, I really don't know how far to go or how good/bad the room is. Are there any 'standard' ideas that I could implement to get me in the ballpark?

My computer/monitors will be centered along one wall with an identical wall 14 feet or so away running parallel. This opposite wall to where the monitors will be also has French-doors that can swing open, but they're usually closed to make that wall solid. the 2 other walls are approx 6 feet to each side of the workstation running perpendicular to the 2 other walls mentioned to make a roughly 14x14 ft room.

So where do I begin? The corners furthest from the monitors? The ceiling/wall corner directly above the monitors?

Any ideas are greatly appreciated.

[COOLCAT]

buy a bunch of 703 panels.

[The Green Hornet]

Yo DAS19:

Yes, you're right. I don't own the Adam 7s yet. However, I have had 3 sets of monitors: Alesis, KRKs, and now Events.

So, I was just kind of philosophizing that maybe I should have gone UP to the Adam monitors earlier; however, "they were not on the market until recently."

I have read many good things about the Adam boxes but, in all honesty, I've
read a couple of negative comments too.

I liked the KRKS and when I mentioned I was moving to Events, someone here bought the KRKs.

I know Blue Bear uses Adam monitors, higher level than the 7s and they are very good boxes.

So, I was only suggesting going high-end might save some money; no need for anyone to spend out of bounds. I surely don't. So, whatever boxes you are using may they give you great results.

Green Hornet

[travelin travis]

I spent $700 on a couple of sets of low budget monitors and came this close >< to buying another pair. Waiting to get into the $1000 range might not be such a bad idea, especially if you're getting along ok with what you have now.

[Greg_L]

700 bucks is low-budget?

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

700 bucks is low-budget?

Not in my book.

I spent around $300 on one pair and $400 on the other and I almost spent another $350 on yet another pair. Now that I think about it, I've done that with many gear purchases. I did recover most of that money by reselling after doing some comparisons but my point is, by cheap by twice. It's true no matter how much I want to not believe it.

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Travis:

How about sending some of those sunshine vapors up to Michigan?

I agree with you. Monitors can run WAYYYY up there; however, that price range is usually not for the average home studio, like mine. However, the "quality" factor keeps pushing all of us. We read this forum and we learn and we hear brand names and accolades or negative reviews. So, I guess we all are interested in gear that is "just a little bit better than the current gear...."

Otherwise, Sweetwater and others would shut their doors, I think.

As I make a recount, I think I had 4 sets of monitors before the current and most expensive, Events. So, if I had bought "better stuff" I might have saved a few bucks in the long run. But, as I mentioned in my other post, the Adam A7s were not available until just recently and they are "not" the best in the world; however, from what I read and hear, they are pretty darned good.

There are probably more monitors in the same price range that are as good or BETTER than the Adams. That's why I tune in here; to learn and evaluate and, ultimately BUY.

Hoping spring comes soon and that your orange crop survives.

Green Hornet

[Greg_L]

This is what I can't wrap my head around: Can't a reasonably priced set of good monitors that give a transparent, uncolored response be 'good enough' if the room is good? If i spend the time/money to get my room right, do i really need 1000 dollar monitors?

[COOLCAT]

of course they can work fine...gold records made on Radio Shack Optimus 7's and Lord Algebra stories, George Martin/Beatles using Auratones etc.
but we're talking gearlust here..hhaah
I was reading the home page today, "Prosumer Monitors", as Dragon calls them The Pro-sumer level...in between Pro and Consumer.

a mutant?

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

This is what I can't wrap my head around: Can't a reasonably priced set of good monitors that give a transparent, uncolored response be 'good enough' if the room is good? If i spend the time/money to get my room right, do i really need 1000 dollar monitors?

Greg, you definitely have to draw the line some where. You're the one that has to decide where the line is. As much as I REALLY wanted to go for a better set of monitors, I decided that I need to be putting money into my instruments first. I had to give myself a reality check and I decided that the monitors I have are perfectly adequate for my needs. I'm very aware of their weaknesses but when it comes down to it, those weaknesses don't justify spending money that needs to go else where for now. If I had my rooms in very good shape and my instruments just the way I want them, my next priority would be high quality monitors and dac. I don't understand how anyone can drop big $ on mics, preamps, and outboard gear while skimping on monitoring. To me it's like buying a $5000 tv when you can't see shit because your prescription glasses are wrong. It doesn't make any sense to me. Know what I'm sayin?

(why does my neumann sound like a 990?)



I think anything in your $200-$400 budget is going to be a big improvement over mixing on headphones but I guarantee you that after you've put in your time with them, you will want to upgrade.

[Greg_L]

I see. It all makes sense, but I have to keep it reasonable. So, having said that, what monitors can you guys recommend?

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

I see. It all makes sense, but I have to keep it reasonable. So, having said that, what monitors can you guys recommend?

Oh yes. We're supposed to be helping you.

Art SLM-1's or the Yorks they were cloned from, YSM-1P's. You said you don't want to mess around with an amp so check out the YSM-1I's. I have the SLM-1's and they translate very well here. I can't imagine anything in the price range functioning any better.

You could always let your ears decide too!

[Greg_L]

Haha, yes help is good.

Thanks for the recommendations and all the other info.

[COOLCAT]

I have some RP6's for a week now, I got for $250 pair, their mint. I was taking them back to GC probably this week or so (though I lost the receipt? not sure how that will turn out.) Their actually in better shape than they were with the cone dimple out. They don't have the PM5's yet.

PM me, if your interested. Maybe you can hook up at Guitar Center or something. The KRK's won;t sit in there long at this price.
They're very similar but subtle differences from the YSM1's, of course.
There's some adjustments of course that can alter the sound.

Ran some sounds, MP3's, comparing today between the two, ran some mono, some seperated-stereo stuff. their very similar. I could enjoy either.
to me monitors are like some people like trying different guitars or owning different guitars. The KRK's are very well built, the jacks and knobs felt sturdy.

the E-MU PM5's are falling off sale. I think this is a safe bet too, per the articles I read, if you can ever get them from GC for the $99each!!
MF already moved them back to $250each. They are 5" and several articles recommended a sub. Anyway...I'm feeling like a broken record.

yeah, you'll really like anything compared to headphones as Travis said..but Hell, Bluebear didn't start out with Adams either.. so grab a few, buy a set.

I didn't hear back from dumbfan, who was looking at the KRK SE set. But I think he's in Austin and I don't want to fhk with shipping.

[travelin travis]

whoops greg, the I's are the passives and the P's are the actives. kind of ass backward if you ask me.

[dementedchord]

if it were me... and you've already got a resonable amp.... then i would look for a pair of used audiofool's these guy's are always lookin to upgrade and ya could still run into a post christmas steal.... look for B+W's.. KEF...

[travelin travis]

hey greg, check out telepaul's thread: http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=227529

those look like a hell of a deal. if i get the chance, i'm going to listen to a pair.

looks like they borrowed those pretty blue lights too.