Copyright ???? On covers

[timboZ]

I'm working on a project for a Church (the church I attend)
Recording about 15 worship songs that CCLI own the rights's.
The Church has a CCLI License to play and display the words to the songs.

Will we be breaking any laws by recording the songs to CD and then give the Cd's away. If people feel fit to give the church a donation for the CD would that be wrong?

I know other Churches do this but I want to make sure we are not breaking any laws.

[MadAudio]

Originally Posted by timboZ

Will we be breaking any laws by recording the songs to CD and then give the Cd's away.

Yes. Normally you'd need to get a mechanical license for recorded versions - even if you're giving it away - but you may be able to get a waiver from CCLI if you ask really nicely.

Other churches are doing it? Shame on them!

[VomitHatSteve]

As a devoted Christian and a member of a worship band, I am all for stealing worship music. Christians should worship God regardless and not expect to get paid for it. It's the whole "house of prayer-den of robbers" thing.

Plus, "Worship Jamz" is the most evil thing I have ever seen.

[dmbfan1981]

Originally Posted by VomitHatSteve

As a devoted Christian and a member of a worship band, I am all for stealing worship music. Christians should worship God regardless and not expect to get paid for it. It's the whole "house of prayer-den of robbers" thing.

Plus, "Worship Jamz" is the most evil thing I have ever seen.

I guess you would say that your pastor should sleep in a gutter since he spends all of his free time at the church instead of a normal 9-5 job?

The musicians who write those songs deserve to be paid fairly and evenly for their hard work. Sure they are doing it because they love to worship, but they have bills to pay just like the rest of us.

Besides, its not always the artist who holds mechanical copyrights. I am sure Todd Agnew, or Chris Tomlin would be more than happy to allow a church to play covers of their music on a CD they planned on giving away as a church promotion, but I doubt that their label ( or whichever conglomerate owns their label ) would be quite as quick to grant that permission. If the artist hasn't recouped their advances, the money isn't going to their pocket anyway.

timboZ, If your church cannot find the answer, or you cannot reach CCLI, then try emailing a certain artists management. Usually those links are readily available on websites. Or you could contact a reputable entertainment lawyer and ask their advice.

[warble2]

Originally Posted by dmbfan1981

I guess you would say that your pastor should sleep in a gutter since he spends all of his free time at the church instead of a normal 9-5 job?

The musicians who write those songs deserve to be paid fairly and evenly for their hard work. Sure they are doing it because they love to worship, but they have bills to pay just like the rest of us.

Besides, its not always the artist who holds mechanical copyrights. I am sure Todd Agnew, or Chris Tomlin would be more than happy to allow a church to play covers of their music on a CD they planned on giving away as a church promotion, but I doubt that their label ( or whichever conglomerate owns their label ) would be quite as quick to grant that permission. If the artist hasn't recouped their advances, the money isn't going to their pocket anyway.

timboZ, If your church cannot find the answer, or you cannot reach CCLI, then try emailing a certain artists management. Usually those links are readily available on websites. Or you could contact a reputable entertainment lawyer and ask their advice.

This is about how I would have put it. Good post.

[warble2]

Originally Posted by timboZ

I'm working on a project for a Church (the church I attend)
Recording about 15 worship songs that CCLI own the rights's.
The Church has a CCLI License to play and display the words to the songs.

Will we be breaking any laws by recording the songs to CD and then give the Cd's away. If people feel fit to give the church a donation for the CD would that be wrong?

I know other Churches do this but I want to make sure we are not breaking any laws.

You might try here for mechanical licensing:
http://www.musicservices.org/

I contacted the record company that handles Matt Redman a couple years back, and was directed to that link for mechanical licensing which would cover you for each song you want to record up to a certain number of CD's. I personally would do this.

[JohnMoxey]

Hey

A reasonably common question. this article should help:

The Cover Song Quagmire

Hope this helps

Cheers

John

[Nate74]

If you do stirctly online distribution through the download sites, do you still have to pay mechanicals on cover songs?

[leddy]

Originally Posted by Nate74

If you do stirctly online distribution through the download sites, do you still have to pay mechanicals on cover songs?

I believe there is a special license for that. Google the Harry Fox agency. It's pretty painless. I've put out jazz CDs where I bought mechanical licenses for the standards I recorded. It was a few hundred bucks, but it had to be done. All happens online with a credit card - no big deal.

[warble2]

Originally Posted by Nate74

If you do stirctly online distribution through the download sites, do you still have to pay mechanicals on cover songs?

No, then you'll need digital licensing.

[Nate74]

Doing some reading it appears that mechanical royalties must be paid if you record someone elses music and manufacture CDs. .09/song for each CD you make, if the song is under 5 minutes.

Is this still about right?

[warble2]

Originally Posted by Nate74

Doing some reading it appears that mechanical royalties must be paid if you record someone elses music and manufacture CDs. .09/song for each CD you make, if the song is under 5 minutes.

Is this still about right?

Yes. That is the current rate:
https://www.harryfox.com/songfile/faq.html#faq1

Digital Licensing covers a minimum of 150 and up to 2500 downloads. This info is also available at the Harry Fox site.

[timboZ]

Thats what I'm getting.

So If the CD's are given away it is still going to cost money.

[warble2]

Originally Posted by timboZ

Thats what I'm getting.

So If the CD's are given away it is still going to cost money.

Try the FAQ's:
http://musicservices.org/faq

FAQ #28 might answer that question, but if still in doubt, I'd contact them directly. I certainly don't subscribe to VomitHatSteve's point of view.

[mrT]

Originally Posted by timboZ

Thats what I'm getting.

So If the CD's are given away it is still going to cost money.

Welcome to the world of music. Where it's not about the substance but the money. "What's that you say... you want to worship your lord with these songs. That's GREAT! just pay up or else."


wouldn't that look bad if the RIAA sued a church though? I doubt they'd care actually.