Let's get it together, people.

[32-20-Blues]

Okay, the songwriting forum needs a renovation. I am tired of coming in here expecting new posts and seeing nothing. At its best, this place is fantastic for discussing ideas; the thread on the role of theory in songwriting was one of the most informative I have read on this site in a long time.

What we need is dedication. Any ideas that occur to you, throw them in here for critiquing. Any snatches of lyrics, or vague chord progressions, type them and post them. Mikeh, Freddy, and Up-Fiddler, I want a thought provoking post from each of you at least every second day. Now get working on it.

One day, this forum will rival the Cave.

[Freddy]

You're right.

Again.

[Obi-Wan zenabI]

32-20, where is that thread? I ran a search and did not find it...

[32-20-Blues]

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan zenabI

32-20, where is that thread? I ran a search and did not find it...

It's the thread entitled 'Writing vocals/lyrics for music,' and the dicussion moves to theory. It's a good read.

[mikeh]

I do agree that there has not been a lot of interesting activity in the songwriting forum recently.

I normally wait for a thread that I feel I can offer something of value (at least whatever limited value may be perceived).

32-20-Blues,

I don't know if I can rise to the challenge. To come up with a thought provoking post every other day would require me to generate a new and original thought every other day. If I could do that - I could be a much better songwriter!

Next time the voices in my head start to debate (fortunately the medicine has helped - they hardly ever tell me to do bad stuff), I will ask them to channel the discord towards songwriting (which would be much less frieghtening than what the voices normally discuss) - and then I can use that for a post

[up-fiddler]

I will do what I can but the next five weeks are crazy for me in a very good way. My new album is due out March 1 with 12 original tunes. All songs have never seemed to fit in the acoustic folk stuff I have recorded before and, of a sudden, they came together in an Alt/Rock type environment. Now I am polishing, cleaning, rerecording, and mastering. It's exciting, as you all know, but exhausting. I'll try to stick around here but will be mostly locked up inside except for ear breaks.

[32-20-Blues]

Originally Posted by up-fiddler

I will do what I can but the next five weeks are crazy for me in a very good way. My new album is due out March 1 with 12 original tunes. All songs have never seemed to fit in the acoustic folk stuff I have recorded before and, of a sudden, they came together in an Alt/Rock type environment.

Congrats man, you deserve it.


Yeah, it's totally cool that you guys are busy. i was just thinking out loud But there is a lot of talent in here.

[TelePaul]

Last time I came here I got in a pissing match with TKdukex or whatever his name is.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by up-fiddler

I will do what I can but the next five weeks are crazy for me in a very good way. My new album is due out March 1 with 12 original tunes. All songs have never seemed to fit in the acoustic folk stuff I have recorded before and, of a sudden, they came together in an Alt/Rock type environment. Now I am polishing, cleaning, rerecording, and mastering. It's exciting, as you all know, but exhausting. I'll try to stick around here but will be mostly locked up inside except for ear breaks.

Sounds great up-fiddler! Good luck to you!

[mjr]

Originally Posted by 32-20-Blues

Okay, the songwriting forum needs a renovation. I am tired of coming in here expecting new posts and seeing nothing. At its best, this place is fantastic for discussing ideas; the thread on the role of theory in songwriting was one of the most informative I have read on this site in a long time.

What we need is dedication. Any ideas that occur to you, throw them in here for critiquing. Any snatches of lyrics, or vague chord progressions, type them and post them. Mikeh, Freddy, and Up-Fiddler, I want a thought provoking post from each of you at least every second day. Now get working on it.

One day, this forum will rival the Cave.

Ok, ok. I give!

Here's a couple I've been working on...

It Is What It Is

When things aren't looking your way
or not going like you think they should
It is what it is
Nothing more, nothing less.
-----------------

(no title)
The ring on my finger says "Dad" (or, spells D-A-D)
and you know son, that makes me glad.
--------------------

(no title)
Her name might as well be "Lenore"
because I'll love her forevermore,
but I will hold her nevermore

Just a couple more I started on. :-)

[ido1957]

Originally Posted by mjr

Ok, ok. I give!

Here's a couple I've been working on...

It Is What It Is

When things aren't looking your way
or not going like you think they should
It is what it is
Nothing more, nothing less.
-----------------

(no title)
The ring on my finger says "Dad" (or, spells D-A-D)
and you know son, that makes me glad.
--------------------

(no title)
Her name might as well be "Lenore"
because I'll love her forevermore,
but I will hold her nevermore

Just a couple more I started on. :-)

Cool - keep 'em coming mjr

[cello_pudding]

Originally Posted by mjr

Her name might as well be "Lenore"
because I'll love her forevermore,
but I will hold her nevermore

two lenore uses? coincidence?

i don't know what the other theory thread was about, but i'll try to offer something that i use. Hopefully you can already construct simple chords like D F# A being Dmajor, using a major 3rd and a perfect fifth so i don't have to explain too much.

I've always thought why things make us pleased. Something like, laughter, tickling, or just enjoying a movie. It's that we don't really know what's coming next, but we have a little idea of how we want it to go. So if we make chord changes that use this same idea, hopefully we can make our audience enjoy listening more.

The first way you can do that is by simple substitutions from borrowing from the minor key. So say we are in C major and we borrow chords from Cminor for a bit and return to our major key. Using harmonic minor let's look at these two sets of chords.

C major : I ii iii IV V vi vii*
C Minor : i ii* III iv V VI vii*
(* is the easy way of making it diminished)

The most common you've heard in pop music is the use of being in a major key but using the iv, or minor four chord. So in C major, the 4th chord would be F, and minor 4th being F minor. Listen to it. Play a C major chord, F minor, and then go back to C major. Another thing to listen to is C major, F major, to F minor. Just remember that it's an out of the norm thing, so don't over use it, because it makes it more special when it's not every 4 chord being altered. You can also see that borrowing from the minor makes our 2 becomes D diminished, and 6 becomes Ab major. Test out using those chords and sing whatever comes to mind. You'll find that it makes for some interesting melodic ideas.

The 2 being diminished can be a neat texture, but sometimes it's a little strange. Let's be in a minor key this time, and instead of playing the diminished, let's flat our second degree. So in A minor, we have a ii* of B diminished (B D F). If we flat the B and use Bb D F, we find a major chord built on the flat 2. This chord typically goes to dominant V chord (E being our dominant here). This chord is called the neapolitan chord. It's typically known as the neapolitan 6, where the 6 means it's in first inversion (won't go into why now) So this chord progression would be played: Bb major with D in the bass, E major, and then A minor. It's just our jazz progression of 2 5 1, with a little bit of a change up. This is typically in a minor key, but i've used it in major keys and it works well.

When I'm creating a riff, I don't really sit down and write out, minor 4 here, N6 there, but I've heard them enough that using an altered chord might just pop up. Sometimes when I hear a melodic idea coming from one chord to a new chord, I'll find the note I'm hearing, and then find a substituted chord that uses that note. The hard part is producing these things, because non diatonic harmony is not heard as much, and hearing more parts can't just be improvisation. Just think about what notes can be played chord to chord, and let your ears do the work.

that's probably enough theory for one post.

[VomitHatSteve]

Ok. Here goes.

"THere once was a man from Nantuckette..."

That's as far as I've gotten.