direct input vs. import from cassette

[chuckmg]

My wife and I are recording books for a literacy foundation. The books are initially recorded on a Marantz portable cassette recorder. After recording, the cassette tapes are imported into Audacity on my PC for editing. To insert or correct words, we have been recording them on the Marantz, re-importing, and making necessary changes. I would rather, of course, make the changes dynamically while editing without the need to rerecord words on the Marantz. However, the input from the Marantz is crystal clear and. so far, I have not been able to achieve that clarity from a direct recording. Hence I have been unable to edit the text directly on the PC. I have a SoundMAX Digital Audio card in the PC. For both the cassette and direct PC recording, I am using a Sennheiser e835 microphone ... in the latter case with an Andrea USB pod. This microphone came highly recommended. I would have attached a 28 second sound clip to clarify the difference between the two input modes but mp3 is not an accepted file extension. It could, of course, be emailed.

This has really frustrated me and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Chuck

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by chuckmg

However, the input from the Marantz is crystal clear and. so far, I have not been able to achieve that clarity from a direct recording.

Chuck,

What is the mic plugged into in each case (the marantz vs. direct in)? In otherwords, are you using different mic preamps? The above quote would seem to indicate that the mic preamp going into the Marantz may be better than the mic preamp recording direct. If you're plugging the mic directly into the soundcard when trying direct, you might want to consider using an external mic pre instead, and then running from that pre to the line in on the sound card just like you're doing with the tape input.

G.

[chuckmg]

Glen,

The mic is plugged directly into the Marantz. It is plugged into the PC via an Andrea USB pod. Would the Marantz be functioning as a preamp in this case? I have actually used it as such ... having it connected to the PC line-in while recording.

Since I have absolutely no knowledge of preamps, can you suggest where I may start looking ... am only interested in recording books. Took a quick look to find out about preamps on the net and found this:
http://studio-central.com/phpbb/view...ghlight=preamp
more than I ever wanted to know about the price of tea in china.

Does SouthSide refer to the south side of Chicago? Grew up there ... in the 40's.

Chuck

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by chuckmg

The mic is plugged directly into the Marantz. It is plugged into the PC via an Andrea USB pod. Would the Marantz be functioning as a preamp in this case? I have actually used it as such ... having it connected to the PC line-in while recording.

Yes, the microphone input on the Marantz most likely goes directoy to a internal preamp to bring the signal up to normal line level. Then it outputs the line level via it's line outputs.

The Andrea is a mic-to-USB adapter. Whether it actually preamplifies the signal or just converts straight to a digital signal, I'm not sure. But I'd suspect that pod as a possible weak link, fidelity-wise. If you can pass through the Marantz into your PC, does that sound better?

Originally Posted by chuckmg

Does SouthSide refer to the south side of Chicago? Grew up there ... in the 40's.

Yep, Born and bred.

G.

[chuckmg]

If you can pass through the Marantz into your PC, does that sound better?

Yes it does! Most importantly it sounds the same as importing tapes from the Marantz ... which is most crucial in order to edit same! Do you think an inexpensive preamp such as http://www.zzounds.com/item--THKMIMAB0 would do the trick for my purposes?

While my wife is not technically inclined (to say the least), I'll let her use the Marantz for recording and then have her sit with me for the editing. From my standpoint, however, I'll probably record online and speed things up even more.

Many thanks for asking the right questions and putting me on the way. Thrashing in a field you are not familiar with is no fun.

Chuck
South Shore High alum

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by chuckmg

Yes it does! Most importantly it sounds the same as importing tapes from the Marantz ... which is most crucial in order to edit same! Do you think an inexpensive preamp such as http://www.zzounds.com/item--THKMIMAB0 would do the trick for my purposes?

Sorry for the delay in reply, this thread slipped by my radar yetserday .

I have no first-hand experience with the Audio Buddy, but I'd be inclined to think that for your purposes it would probably be on a par with what you're getting through your Marantz, more or less.

If you can record to PC directly live through the Marantz and it sounds fine to you, I'd say just do it that way, and that the extra expense for an Audio Buddy may not be worth it. You'd probably have to get to the $150-$160 price range for audibly better performance. Something like the Tascam US122L or the MAudio DMP-3 (though with the DMP-3 you'd have to jump through a few adapter cables to connect it to your sound card, I think.)

If, however, you're looking to use something in place of the Marantz, the Buddy may be good enough for your purposes. You could always try one and then exchange it for one of the better models above (or return it and use the Marantz) if it's not up to snuff.

(Beverly Hills/Mt. Greenwood)

G.

[RAK]

I've heard good things about the Audio Buddy for an inexpenseive ntroductory mic-pre. I agree it sounds like it might work well for your purposes. It's fairly clear, and has a lot of gain. As southside said, if you're happy with the Marantz sound, this is probably going to be on par with that, if not somewhat better. I would be very surprised if it was worse than what's in the Marantz.

I may mostly be a northsider, but I did live and work in Hyde Park for a year.
But then again, I'm really from Detroit anyway.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by RAK

I may mostly be a northsider, but I did live and work in Hyde Park for a year.

Hmmmm, either MSI, UofC, or a funky bookstore?

G.

[RAK]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

Hmmmm, either MSI, UofC, or a funky bookstore?

G.

UofC Lab School.

I was also working at GSU down in the southern suburbs.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by RAK

UofC Lab School.

Very impressive!

Originally Posted by RAK

I was also working at GSU down in the southern suburbs.

Ah, yes, I know GSU pretty well. I set up a PC-based phone messaging system for them many, many years ago, and one of my close friends/band members lives down in Park Forest and both he and his daughter have done/do theater work down there.

G.

[chuckmg]

Hi Guys,

Sorry I've been incomunicado. Have been away.

I took your consensus advice and have ordered Audio Buddy. As you said, Glenn, I could always return it for an upgrade if necessary.

Chuck

I had an Audio Buddy. No noise at low levels, but if you have to crank the gain past half way then you start getting a little noise.

I would personally say upgrade to the DMP3, but for talking/speech then the Audio Buddy should work fine and not give you any problems at all.

[chuckmg]

I would personally say upgrade to the DMP3, but for talking/speech then the Audio Buddy should work fine

Thanks, Danny ... if the Audio Buddy is not satisfactory, I'll look at the DMP3 next. Nice to know a good alternative.

Chuck

[chuckmg]

Hi,

I'm back again. Took your consensus advice and ordered an Audio Buddy from ZZounds. It did not sound good ... i.e. clarity not satisfactory. Called ZZounds to return same and was advised to trade it in on a Samson CO1U USB mic which comes recommended for podcasting. Unfortunately, the result is still not satisfactory ... voice sounds hollow with a slight background hum. Does not have the clarity as I had with the Marantz cassette tape recorder as described in first entry here. Any recommendations as to which direction I should take from here would be greatly welcomed?

I tried to upload 3 short, self-explanatory mp3 sound clips but the file size was too large to upload (903KB). If anyone is willing to listen to them email me at CHUCKMG@ACM.ORG.

Chuck

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by chuckmg

I'm back again. Took your consensus advice and ordered an Audio Buddy from ZZounds. It did not sound good ... i.e. clarity not satisfactory. Called ZZounds to return same and was advised to trade it in on a Samson CO1U USB mic which comes recommended for podcasting. Unfortunately, the result is still not satisfactory ... voice sounds hollow with a slight background hum. Does not have the clarity as I had with the Marantz cassette tape recorder as described in first entry here. Any recommendations as to which direction I should take from here would be greatly welcomed?

Chuck,

Frankly I'm not suprised at the results you got from the Samson; that was a bum steer. And the AudioBuddy was too entry-level for your needs. OK, you need to up your gear.

The next step up from the Bud would be the DMP3 as discussed earlier. Though, personally, I'd prefer something other than MAudio - the ART TPS-II comes to mind. Also look at the Tascam 122L for something that'll give you servicable pres but also give you USB connection to your PC so you can avoid your soundcard altogether.

Also, for the discriminating ear, a mic upgrade might be considered. You have mentioned that you like your current Sennheiser, and that's fine. But if you really want that narrative/broadcaster sound, take a look at the EV RE-20.

G.

[chuckmg]

Glen,

Thanks again. Will give the gear you recommended a look see. It's obvious that I can't see the forest from the trees in things audio. In things visual, photo editing is my forte. Can you recommend any reference books/texts, or online tutorials that would help bring me up to speed on the audio editing side?

Chuck

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by chuckmg

Can you recommend any reference books/texts, or online tutorials that would help bring me up to speed on the audio editing side?

There's no shortage of good books on audio recording and production. A couple of quick searches of Amazon.com under "home recording" or "audio engineering" should yield a good dozen relevant titles. What to get depends upon your current level of knowledge. If you have a Borders or Barnes & Noble or even a quality library near you, what I'd recommend would be printing out a list from Amazon, circling those that look interesting to you, and heading down to the bookstore or library to check the books out in person just to see which ones seem to be the best for your needs.

That said, a couple of popular recommendations:

- If you are really quite the rookie and are not sure of the difference between a preamp and a guitar amp (no shame in that, we all gotta start somewhere), there are a couple of "for Dummies" books that are actually quite instructive.

- If you are of a fairly technically artistic bent and the entry-level books are a bit remedial for you, check out "Modern Recording Techniques" by Huber and Runstein. A quite comprehensive tone that just about everbody in this racket has read (or will read) at one time or another.

- If you have the basics fairly well understood, but are looking more into insight into technique and how the pros do what they do, check out the "__________ Engineer's Handbook" series ("Recording", "Mixing" or "Mastering") by Bobby Owsinski. Chock full of stories and advice in the form of conversations with some of the top name engineers in the business.

Also, as a companion to all that, I'd head over to the Sweetwater website (www.sweetwater.com) and order their free catalog. Usually a good 300 or more pages in size, it's a good way of orienting what is being discussed in the books with the real live equipment that's available.

HTH,

G.

[chuckmg]

Glen,

Thanks for the great list of references and pointers. No less than I've come to expect of you. Having a couple of degrees in engineering, and having retired from applied R&D in computer tech from a national library, your list and pointers are worth their weight in gold. Having designed and implemented online retrieval systems, finding resources is not the problem. It is separating the chaff from the grain that can only be done by a subject matter expert.

Chuck

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by chuckmg

It is separating the chaff from the grain that can only be done by a subject matter expert.

Ah yes, the Big Internet Dilemma of the 21st century, dealing with the low signal to noise ratio and the never-ending battle against wikiality and social myth.

As a long-time software engineer and systems troubleshooter, I take the compliment from someone of your pedigree as high praise indeed, Thank you .

(Though it helps that this is about the 15th time I've given an answer to that particular question on this board. It's kinda hard not to get polished at it after that much practice )

G.