Drum edits... noticeable?

[drewz0r]

Recently, my friend and I recorded lots of drum takes for an EP we are working on.

In order to get the best possible arrangement I had to fuse together different bars of different takes and different fills. (etc) The adjustments are not painfully obvious, but they are noticeable. My question: generally, will the addition of guitar, bass, and vocal tracks help cover up drum edits?

Thanks,
Drew

BTW, this is my first "real" project and I'm stoked.

[LIMiT]

Hey man...

I would suggest you get the drums laid down right in 1 take.

The most important steps in recording are:

a good song
good players playing the song
good instrument
well tuned instrument
room
mic, mic pre's, converters etc

Drums are the foundation on which a good mix is built. You want the drums to be as spot on as possible, so when everyone else tracks to them,..the same 'emotion' and 'flow' is carried through the takes.

If there are drum edits that are noticeable, this will effect every player playing to them. (If you're editing full bars and have already tracked everything else...you're in for some major headaches).

Editing drums is common, but it's more moving or muting a kick or snare hit here or there.

Can you give us a clip of what you're working on?


-LIMiT

[jmorris]

It depends on the drummer and engineer. If both are good, you wont notice anything even just drums solo'd. I have punched in drum parts at times and if done properly it is seamless. As said in post ,try to get them right the first time but that isnt always the ways it works out. I have many times done full kit punch ins manually. I have the drummer play to existing track and when I feel it is a good point I punch him in. Usually on a down beat or strong cymbal hit.
Jim

[RAMI]

Take LIMIT's advice, bro.

If they show, you have to assume they'll show even with other instruments supposedly "masking" them. You'd hate to have people noticing room sound cutting in and out, etc...Someone listening through a good set of headphones would probably notice, at the least, something "wrong" with the track....Even if it's not noticeable right away to the naked ear, it will effect the feel of the tune, I think.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by jmorris

It depends on the drummer and engineer. If both are good, you wont notice anything even just drums solo'd. I have punched in drum parts at times and if done properly it is seamless.

I agree.

I was answering based on this statement:

The adjustments are not painfully obvious, but they are noticeable

.

[drewz0r]

http://drewconley.googlepages.com/Snare_DrumSolo.wav

Here is a drum solo/fill section.
This is just a bare overhead track panned center. Obviously the real session has a bigger sound. This is the most common example of the editting I am referring to.

Thanks for the replies!

[LIMiT]

I was basing my response to the fact that the poster stated this is his first project, so learning the *best* way to go is to get it all in one take.


**Having trouble listening to the clip you posted. Might be just me**


cheers,

-LIMiT

[drewz0r]

I appreciate the tips regarding the all-in-one-take method, but redoing the drum tracks is not an option for us right now.

With that said, I would like to change the topic to "What can I do to HELP these fused drum tracks?"

Trust me, if I had more reliable band members who were in to this project as much as I am... we wouldnt be having this discussion.

No worries though, next time I will definatly use the one-take method.

[ecktronic]

I agree that drums should be done in 1 take, although sometimes it is a hard feat if the song is particualrly tricky.
Ive done alot of drum editing, using a part here, a part there to peice together flawless drums. It wasnt a quick job in the slightest, but I suppose it was worth it to get the drums sounding alright.

There are times when edits in drums just arent possible IMO. Say you have a snare hit out of place or the snare hit is a bad hit, and you move the hit or replace the hit. If there is alot of hat bleed then sometimes it wont sound right. Ive done things like copy and parts from OHs at one part of a song then pasted them in another part of the song to make the drums sound flawless.

Eck

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by drewz0r

http://drewconley.googlepages.com/Snare_DrumSolo.wav

Here is a drum solo/fill section.
This is just a bare overhead track panned center. Obviously the real session has a bigger sound. This is the most common example of the editting I am referring to.

Thanks for the replies!

At 5 seconds I can hear the cymbals stopping suddenly then starting again. I beleive this is a edit you did. I dont think it will be a big problem when in with the rest of the band, but you can always use the OH technique I explained in my last post.

Eck

[MessianicDreams]

As suggested, it's best to get drums down perfectly in 1 take.




But we all know, sometimes that just isn't possible.

For best edits, try zooming in as close as you can on the wave form. do any edits at zero crossing poins on the waveform, or as close as possible. Fadeouts and crossfades are very useful in taming sounds being cut by the edit points.

[Robert D]

Yes, crossfades are your friends. On drum edits, don't watch the monitor as you evaluate the edit. It should be hard to detect the edit with the drums solo'd before you result to full mix masking. Experiment with different edit points. The place you first think it should go is rarely the best place. Never cut off a cymbol as it rings out - dead give away.

[RAMI]

Great advice above, starting with Eck's post a few back. I definitely strive for a one-take drum track. But I punch in if I need to. You just need to make sure your punch-in point is clean....eg: Long enough after the decay of a cymbal crash, etc...

And give the drummer a good pre-roll so he can get into the groove of the track he's going to continue.