Need advice for miking my drums

[JBFdrums]

OK
I have a standard 5 piece great quality Ludwig kit...
I bought 4 mics and a Mackie 1402 (6 XLR Inputs)
I bought:
One SM-57 (Snare Drum)
One Sennheiser 602E (Evolution Series for my Bass Drum)
Two Rode-NT1's for stereo Overhead/Toms

My buddies and I are recording into a little 4-track cassette until we save enough $$$ for an Akai DPS...

Anyway, the bass drum and snare drum with some tweaking I know will sound great... But the toms sound pretty distant.
I don't think moving the NT-1's around is going to help much. They pick up my cymbals and Hi-Hat very well. If I make them louder to pick up the toms then the cymbals really start to "wash"...
I should also add that my practice room/studio is in a concrete basement! I know that doesn't help but it's the best that $120.00 a month can buy in Queens, NY!!!!

My questions are:
Does anyone think that my tom issues can be overcome with 3 more mics. (one for each tom)
Would anyone recommend the small Sennheiser (clip on) mics?
Will I still be able to pick up all of my cymbals and Hi-Hat using only one of my NT-1's as an overhead? (The Mackie only has 6 XLR inputs so if I buy 3 small tom mics I'd have no room to plug in one of the Rode NT-1 mics)

Thanks in advance for helping me through my "issues"
JEFF

[scroticus]

man i hate those senn mics , my church uses them for the toms and you can never really get them into the right position , they are tough little boogers though,
i use the same mixer so i know thy plight
I'm not sure of your overheads positions , but i get great results by using the X/Y config, basically put the the heads of the mics as close together without touching,
the one that is on the left(drummers view)is aimed to the right and the other is aimed to the left , pan them hard left and right , oh they should be about a foot or two above the drums and a foot or so behind the drummer,depending on the room tone you want or dont want to capture
since i started using this i havnt had to use a hi hat or ride mic and the stereo spread is great, and the only reason i need tom mics is for a little attack, also the snare sounds good if you can mic the bottom as well as the top heads,

[Tim Brown]

Originally posted by JBFdrums
OK
I should also add that my practice room/studio is in a concrete basement! I know that doesn't help but it's the best that $120.00 a month can buy in Queens, NY!!!!

My questions are:
Does anyone think that my tom issues can be overcome with 3 more mics. (one for each tom)
Would anyone recommend the small Sennheiser (clip on) mics?
Will I still be able to pick up all of my cymbals and Hi-Hat using only one of my NT-1's as an overhead? (The Mackie only has 6 XLR inputs so if I buy 3 small tom mics I'd have no room to plug in one of the Rode NT-1 mics)

Thanks in advance for helping me through my "issues"
JEFF

Where are you putting your overheads?
How High above the kit are they?

Hell, use the Rode's on your toms!

Use one above the mounted Toms (about 4-10") and the other for the floor. You'll have to mess with the distance to find out where it picks up best.

I didn't like those Sennheiser's for drums smaller than a 14", because of the clip-I just think it put's the mic in the way.

And most importantly, make sure the kit is tuned really well....You could also make some "walls" out of 2x6"'s and plywood, and carpet cover those to put around the kit, to help knock down some of the reflections if you needed to....actually, you could just make it out of 2" PVC pip, and have the carpet hang over it....
It won't "soundproof" it at all, but it can be used to help "deaden" what's going to tape...

Tim

[JBFdrums]

Thanks for the advice from both of you...
To answer Tim's question, my overhead NT 1 mics were about 3 or 4 feet above my kit. I haven't tried the XY yet but I will.
I'll also try using one NT 1 over my two rack toms and the other over the floor tom.

To answer Tim's other question about tuning, "Yes" the drums are well tuned. I went out and bought this great little device called "The Drum Dial" It measures the head tension not the lug torque like other tuners... It worked wonders on both my newer and older drumsets. Once you get a hang of it, you can get a drum in tune pretty quickly.

Back to the basement for me first thing tomorrow morning!!!

Thanks as always,
JEFF

[pratt]

JBFdrums -

If you would like to close mic all of your toms - you don't have to sacrifice one of your overheads - just get an external mic preamp and you can take the outs directly into one of your line-ins on your board.

Here's the setup that I use: a Behringer MX1604 12 channel board (4 XLR ins; 4 stereo line ins) - snare; 2 high toms; 2 low toms; bass drum - 4 mics into the 4 XLR ins; 2 rode NT3s as overheads running into the Presonus 2-channel mic preamp and then into a stereo line in (or can also run each into its own channel if you have enough channels)

Just a thought for ya....