Dav Bg-1

[antispatula]

So I've been looking into more high-quality preamps and after lots of research and help from everyone here, I'm very interested in the DAV BG-1.

1. How much does it cost in the US?

2.There's one button for phantom power. I'm going to use a condenser and a dynamic when recording stuff like piano and guitar. Phantom power can't hurt something like a 57 can it?

3. What do YOU guys think about the unit? I'd rather spend under 1,000 than blow it on something that cost hundreds more than what I have!

4. I'd be outputing it into an unbalanced 1/4" soundcard if that matters any.

5. Merry Christmas. I got a 12 string guitar! Sounds amazing. I don't know if I'll ever be able to go back to 6 my 6 strings.

-Russell

[Big Kenny]

One of my favorite purchases of 2006, paid 700 shipped. Wonderful clean sound that just won't sound crappy on anything and works well with all different low end comps (rnc, dbx, tc helicon...)

[antispatula]

alright great! Did you buy it off the davelectronics site directly?

[Big Kenny]

actually got it barely used at gearslutz

[Supercreep]

Love it. Not my first choice for my voice, but gets frequent OH use. With nice mics you will hear how good (or not) your room sounds.

You will pay customs in the US, around 60 bucks.


It's very hot - make sure your soundcard can handle the input.


If it were stolen I'd definitely replace it.

[SonicAlbert]

Love my DAV BG-1. However, I'm not sure if the unbalanced inputs on your soundcard will be able to handle it. Are they -10 or +4? The BG-1 needs +4 because of the hot level it puts out.

[Paj]

Originally Posted by SonicAlbert

Love my DAV BG-1. However, I'm not sure if the unbalanced inputs on your soundcard will be able to handle it. Are they -10 or +4? The BG-1 needs +4 because of the hot level it puts out.

Ditto that.

Paj
8^)

[kojdogg]

you can always get an ebtech line shifter bump box to deal with that

[ofajen]

Don't own the BG-1 myself. I can't seem to find any info on whether the BG-1 has output transformers (or input transformers, for that matter). Presumably, the manual would specify, and we do have owners here on this forum.

But, either way, the balanced output can easily be unbalanced and the level issues easily handled:

If the output is transformer-balanced, most likely you just tie the minus leg of the output to ground, while if it's not, you leave the minus leg floating, which conveniently cuts the output by 6 dB.

The level issues are easily handled with a 10K fixed pad on each channel. That just takes three 1/2 watt resistors per channel. You just have to figure out how many dB of level reduction you need to match the maximum unbalanced output of the preamp to the maximum input level of your soundcard input. Probably 15 dB, at least, maybe 20dB or more.

Cheers,

Otto

[Big Kenny]

This is fun http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/showthread.php?t=8977
This might answer some of the other questions, and I for one, find the preamp to be a wonderful color but not as clean as some do. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec0...tronicsbg1.htm

[ofajen]

Originally Posted by Big Kenny

This is fun http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/showthread.php?t=8977
This might answer some of the other questions, and I for one, find the preamp to be a wonderful color but not as clean as some do. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec0...tronicsbg1.htm

I read that SOS review article some months ago, before I bought the MixPre. Unfortunately, it doesn't mention anything about input or output transformers, yea or nay. Nor did I find an owner's manual available on the DAV website. Perhaps someone who owns one could check?

Cheers,

Otto

[fraserhutch]

Why don't you just ask Mick? You can send him email through his site. He was very responsive when I had a few questions.

http://www.davelectronics.com/enquiries.htm

Originally Posted by ofajen

I read that SOS review article some months ago, before I bought the MixPre. Unfortunately, it doesn't mention anything about input or output transformers, yea or nay. Nor did I find an owner's manual available on the DAV website. Perhaps someone who owns one could check?

Cheers,

Otto

[ofajen]

Mick sez the DAV BG-1 has electronically balanced ins and outs. To unbalance the output, simply leave the minus leg of the output floating. This will also cut the output level by 6 dB. The details of connectors and cables depend on whether you use a patch bay, what kind, how you want it to work, etc.

Cheers,

Otto

[chessrock]

The DAV doesn't appear to be anything special.

It's another INA-163 based mic pre. Big whoop. Not saying that can't sound really good, because it's a more than capable mic pre chip, but I still have a hard time understanding how to justify it's cost (DAV).

If you want that basic sound and level of transparency, you could spend a lot less and just get a Rane MS1B. Same electronics and design principles -- less money.

.

[fraserhutch]

Hmmmm, I did try the Rane, and to my ears, not as nice.

Go figure.

Originally Posted by chessrock

The DAV doesn't appear to be anything special.

It's another INA-163 based mic pre. Big whoop. Not saying that can't sound really good, because it's a more than capable mic pre chip, but I still have a hard time understanding how to justify it's cost (DAV).

If you want that basic sound and level of transparency, you could spend a lot less and just get a Rane MS1B. Same electronics and design principles -- less money.

.

[Minion]

Well a LOT of Mic pre"s use the INA163/INA217/INA103 Type Mic preamp chips and some are Much more expensive than others...I believe the DMP3 uses an INA217 and there are a couple Foscurite units that use the INA163/INA217 Chips so there is quite a discrepancy between Preamp Prices that use simular Circuit topologies.....

I am actually building a couple 4 channel Preamps useing the INA217 Chips and they are only going to cost me about $50-$75 per 4 channels Pluss my time and these Chips are extremely easy to implement into a good working circuit...I think I might try to sell one of the Units once they are built so I can recoup my losses......

[Rodger Hartlett]

The DAV doesn't appear to be anything special.It's another INA-163 based mic pre. Big whoop. Not saying that can't sound really good, because it's a more than capable mic pre chip, but I still have a hard time understanding how to justify it's cost (DAV).

i couldn't agree more. it even looks a bit D.I.Y.

[SonicAlbert]

Oddly enough perhaps, the DAV BG-1 *is* something special, no matter what chips happen to be inside. Being concerned over what chips are being used is to totally miss the point in my opinion. Close your eyes and listen. The chips don't matter, the sound does. The BG-1 sounds great. There's a lot more to electronics design than tossing some chips in a box.

As far as the appearance of the BG-1, it's designed to be sturdy and portable. The case is light and tough and can survive a beating, which is the intent of it. The simplicity of the cosmetics is part of why it is available so inexpensively. If you want tooled aluminum, lots of blinky lights and pretty colors, there's plenty of other preamps you can buy. But I personally appreciate that the quality is in the guts and the design, not a pretty faceplate.

Say what you will about the chips, the BG-1 is a great sounding preamp. However DAV made that happen, it's well worth the $700 for a couple channels in my opinion. I'm just a happy customer and have no other connection to DAV, so don't even start with that stuff.

[ofajen]

Originally Posted by chessrock

The DAV doesn't appear to be anything special.

It's another INA-163 based mic pre. Big whoop. Not saying that can't sound really good, because it's a more than capable mic pre chip, but I still have a hard time understanding how to justify it's cost (DAV).

Funny, that's about what David Josephson said about the DAV and the RNP. Something along the lines of "I wouldn't pay that much for what are very pedestrian implementations of (list of relevant chips)". In that same price range, I went with the Sound Devices MixPre, instead, which has worked out magnificently for me.

But who am I to say? I've never bothered to track down the BG-1 for a comparison. I do know that the outputs are electronically balanced, so if antispatula wants to unbalance, he just floats the minus leg.

Cheers,

Otto

[Rodger Hartlett]

TTYTT that creep 'Big Ray' made the whole DAV thing look suspect.i would never purchase anything by DAV.when i found out it had the cheap parts i was not surprised.

[fraserhutch]

Your loss, no skin off my back.

Originally Posted by Rodger Hartlett

TTYTT that creep 'Big Ray' made the whole DAV thing look suspect.i would never purchase anything by DAV.when i found out it had the cheap parts i was not surprised.

[tdukex]

Originally Posted by Minion

...I believe the DMP3 uses an INA217...

Actually, it uses the INA163...unless they have switched it in the last couple of years.

[Big Kenny]

I got one, I love it! I don't let many opinions weigh in too heavy, but I do appreciate expertise when I hear it.

[SonicAlbert]

Originally Posted by Rodger Hartlett

TTYTT that creep 'Big Ray' made the whole DAV thing look suspect.i would never purchase anything by DAV.when i found out it had the cheap parts i was not surprised.

fraserhutch got it right, your loss. I agree to a certain extent that BigRay pushed the DAV gear so hard it turned a few people off. I emailed him on that topic and suggested he back off a bit, but he didn't agree with me, and just felt he was getting the word out on some great audio gear. But for you to reject equipment just because of one guy's enthusiasm is silly.

You've not used or heard any DAV gear and yet you are bashing it, saying it has "cheap parts". If anything is suspect, it's your opinion on the matter of DAV gear.

I own a DAV BG-1 preamp and a BG-4 compressor/limiter, both excellent products that sound great. And I can say that from personal experience, not by simply regurgitating posts written by strangers on a message board. Again, I have no connection to DAV other than being a customer.

[MCI2424]

Originally Posted by chessrock

The DAV doesn't appear to be anything special.

It's another INA-163 based mic pre. Big whoop. Not saying that can't sound really good, because it's a more than capable mic pre chip, but I still have a hard time understanding how to justify it's cost (DAV).

If you want that basic sound and level of transparency, you could spend a lot less and just get a Rane MS1B. Same electronics and design principles -- less money.

.

Cost totally depends on how the product is manufactured and has nothing whatsoever to do with how the design was done.

Hand made anything is expensive. Mass made anything is much cheaper.

I have a product now that our company is introducing that we mads 20 beta units (pre-production). The unit will be sold for $149.00 each.

Production is tooling up now.

20 beat units (hand made) break down to:
Case = $200each Production = $10.00 each
Cable = $60 each $8.00 each
PC board (populated)= $120 each $15.00 each
Labels = $2.00 each $.012 each


That is most of the parts for this product. Most $$$ is in labor (machining, hand assy, custom tooling etc.)

So, we go from $292.00 each to ~$33.012 each in volume.

We have not even discussed the design at all. Volume is everything in the pricing wars and hand made anything costs like hell.

Now to your point, design (to us) IS everything. If the thing sucks, no amount of money can save it.