Interactive Frequency Charts

[SouthSIDE Glen]

There are some new audio reference charts available at this temporary web page. These online pop up charts start with an interactive frequency and instrument chart. From that chart one can also click on an ear sensitivity chart thumbnail to bring up an ful-sized interactive ear sentitivity/equal loudness contour chart based upon the ISO 226 standard.

Feel free to have at them. If you have any technical issues or other errors with these charts, please let me know. Thanks!

Note: Those using the Firefox browser that have their popup blocker turned on would have to set the blocker to let popups from domain name "servername.net" pass in order to view these charts. There are no adware, spyware, tracking cookies, viruses, trojans, worms or any other kind of malware included as part of these popup charts, so it's safe to let them through.

G.

[apl]

That's seriously really cool and a powerful tool.

Hate to pick nits, but a 24 fret electric guitar will go up to E6.

[lomky]

Seriously, that is really cool!

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by apl

Hate to pick nits, but a 24 fret electric guitar will go up to E6.

Yeah, one thing I discovered while researching this stuff is these kinds of charts are a comprimise of sorts. It's not just with guitars. Organs, brass instruments, woodwinds, all have variations on the "basic" instruments - different tunings, different modifications, extended ranges, etc. If one was to include all of them, the chart would be about three yards long .

I've done my best to try and pick the most common or most "accepted" values for any given instrument. But there will always be exceptions and omissions.

Hence the discalimer in the legend, "All values are approximate" .

Thanks for the reaction and input, however. It's good to know. And you have given me the seed of an idea; perhaps in the future I may include another screen that discusses this issue in some detail.

G.

[RezN8]

SSG- this awesome - I was just trying to explain all this to a client the other day - no I can show them this - it helps a lot! You da man!!! -Rez

[bennychico11]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

I've done my best to try and pick the most common or most "accepted" values for any given instrument. But there will always be exceptions and omissions.

Hence the discalimer in the legend, "All values are approximate" .

I was going to say...the saxophones/clarinet range is off by a few steps (particularly the lower fundamentals).
I guess maybe a disclaimer could be added for people not to use this sheet when trying to find the range of an instrument (for composing purposes). If you start composing alto sax music to go down to a low A, you're going to see quite a few players with their foot in their horns

otherwise, it looks great. Thanks for that.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by bennychico11

I was going to say...the saxophones/clarinet range is off by a few steps (particularly the lower fundamentals).
I guess maybe a disclaimer could be added for people not to use this sheet when trying to find the range of an instrument (for composing purposes). If you start composing alto sax music to go down to a low A, you're going to see quite a few players with their foot in their horns

Yeah, that's a particular problem with the brass and woodwind instruments, is the edges of the range depends greatly on the capabilities of the player; what overblows they can acheive, how low they can limbo before popping a vein in ther necks, etc. It sucks for this kind of purpose that every instrument isn't like the piano in that regard...but it's good for musicianship .

As far as the disclaimer for composing purposes, yeah, that'd assuredly be something to put in that explanaitory text I mentioned last post. For now I'm just riding on the bet that since this is (so far) only "advertised" here in this forum, and that it will be part of a webside dedicated specifically to independant recording and engineering resources - versus one devoted to musicianship or composing, for example - that this issue won't mushroom up much in the meantime.

It's really meant as a general reference. I originally created it as part of my next "engineering notebook" which will be on critical listening skills (that I'm still working on). But the reaction I got on this chart from people doing early alpha-testing on it for me was almost unanimously along the lines of it being something I should also offer as a stand-alone web app, and not just imbedded within that notebook. So here we are .

Besides, the chart is no less accurate overall than any of the other frequency charts I have come across - not that that's saying much; the accuracy of information on the Internet continues to be of often questionable quality to this day. I had to weed out alll sorts of inaccuracies and contradictions, and sometime where relaible information could not be second-sourced, make the best educated-guess pick available.

G.

[bennychico11]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

Yeah, that's a particular problem with the brass and woodwind instruments, is the edges of the range depends greatly on the capabilities of the player; what overblows they can acheive, how low they can limbo before popping a vein in ther necks, etc. It sucks for this kind of purpose that every instrument isn't like the piano in that regard...but it's good for musicianship .

not with the lower fundmentals of the woodwind. Particularly the saxophone/clarinet. They're pretty much set in grain unless you get a horn that can go lower (ie. the bari sax with the low A key) or start stuffing things in your bell (the foot I joked about above is actually something some saxophonists do to get the lower A). But you're right about the brass (as we had a conversation about the trombone in an earlier thread) and the upper notes of the woodwinds. I've seen so many variations in different books...many which are impractical.

But as a sax/clarinet player that's the first thing I noticed so I thought I'd mention it. Not big deal really.

[Dogbreath]

Very Cool, Sir.

Much-o appreciated-o that you take the time. Kind of like teaching the teachers to teach.

You Da Man.

[andyhix]

Might just be the way I have my screen set up, but I can't get the whole thing to fit on my competer screen. the text at teh bottom - subbass, bass, midrange, etc, and the SS logo are cut in half (Ie I can't see the bottom of the text or the logo), and it doesn't seem to be adjustable (maximize button is grayed out, and pulling the double arrow at the corner doesn't do anything).

Otherwise, AWESOME!!!!

Edit - I worded this poorly. The whole popup fits on my screen just fine, but the bottom of the popup "frame" is cutting off the text and logo. So based on that, I can't see how it has anything to do with screen settings.

It'd be cool to be able to select one instrument and have it just show it's frequency range on a bigger screen or something, but that's just an idea.

I can see how this would help a lot when mixing and it serves as a good reference.

[HeyHeyMyMy]

This is excellent.

[timboZ]

That is very cool.....

How do I download so I can run it on a PC without internet?

Originally Posted by timboZ

That is very cool.....

How do I download so I can run it on a PC without internet?

Go to:

http://www.lintrophx.com/southside/f...in_display.htm

Then click: File -> Save -> And save as a webpage (complete).

[dementedchord]

way cool glenn... wondered what happened to the project since it had been awhile since last heard of it...

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by andyhix

Might just be the way I have my screen set up, but I can't get the whole thing to fit on my competer screen. the text at teh bottom - subbass, bass, midrange, etc, and the SS logo are cut in half

Let me take a guees here, Andy...

You're using the Firefox (or other Mozilla-based) browser and you are running a screen resolution of 1024x768 (or similar), and possibly you are running WIndows with the task bar set to be always displayed.

How close am I to your setup?

If that's what you got, there are two things happening: first the browser is forcing a status line to appear at the bottom of the window. This is a glitch in the Mozilla browser code, that status line is not supposed to be there.

Second, is because of what Mozilla "sees" as usable screen real-estate, it thinks that it can't vertically expand the window's outer size to make up for the space that status line takes up without pushing the bottom off the window off-screen. While this is not really true as the window is only 700 pixels tall, and with the status line it goes to 715-720 pixels tall (I forget which off-hand), Mozilla won't push beyond the top of the Windows task bar which it considers to be off limits (another Mozilla "oddity".) So instead it keeps the window the same size and cuts off the window content with the status line that it forces on the window.

I've tried fixing that several different ways, but the Mozilla code is pretty stubborn and none of the workarounds (e.g. increasing the window size in hard code or explicitly forcing the status bar off) actually work.

While you're not really missing anything of value, it does look sloppy. One easy fix is if you have your Windows Taskbar set to always on top, temporarily set it to "auto-hide" instead, at least while on that page. With the taskbar out of the way, Mozilla should properly expand the window to accomodate the full content *and* the status bar and you'll see everything unimpeded.

HTH,

G.

P. S.

Originally Posted by dementedchord

wondered what happened to the project since it had been awhile since last heard of it...

Yeah, sorry 'bout that, but I had some personal family issues in the past couple of months that culminated in the death of a close family member a few weeks ago. That all pushed my whole work schedule way off, including this extracurricular stuff.

[andyhix]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

Let me take a guees here, Andy...

You're using the Firefox (or other Mozilla-based) browser and you are running a screen resolution of 1024x768 (or similar), and possibly you are running WIndows with the task bar set to be always displayed.

How close am I to your setup?

If that's what you got, there are two things happening: first the browser is forcing a status line to appear at the bottom of the window. This is a glitch in the Mozilla browser code, that status line is not supposed to be there.

Second, is because of what Mozilla "sees" as usable screen real-estate, it thinks that it can't vertically expand the window's outer size to make up for the space that status line takes up without pushing the bottom off the window off-screen. While this is not really true as the window is only 700 pixels tall, and with the status line it goes to 715-720 pixels tall (I forget which off-hand), Mozilla won't push beyond the top of the Windows task bar which it considers to be off limits (another Mozilla "oddity".) So instead it keeps the window the same size and cuts off the window content with the status line that it forces on the window.

I've tried fixing that several different ways, but the Mozilla code is pretty stubborn and none of the workarounds (e.g. increasing the window size in hard code or explicitly forcing the status bar off) actually work.

While you're not really missing anything of value, it does look sloppy. One easy fix is if you have your Windows Taskbar set to always on top, temporarily set it to "auto-hide" instead, at least while on that page. With the taskbar out of the way, Mozilla should properly expand the window to accomodate the full content *and* the status bar and you'll see everything unimpeded.

Close, but I'm on IE. otherwise, the screen resolution, etc., that you guessed is correct. Anyway, no big deal. Like you said, I'm not missing anything critical. I just thought if it looked that way for a lot of people it might be worth trying to fix. But if it's just me, then no worries. I'll survive. Anyway, the chart is awesome!

[SonicAlbert]

That's very cool Southside, nicely done. I like the info window for each instrument and the hearing range chart.

I haven't checked all the instrument ranges yet, but violas go down to "C3", not "G3". They are strung the same as cellos but an octave up. It's correct on the bar chart but wrong in the info window.

Likewise, it might be nice to have the bass chart go down to low "C" instead of low "E", since many string bass players have a C extension on their instrument. Yes, that's nit-picking, but the chart is so good why not get a little more detail in there?

I've bookmarked your interactive chart. Beautifully done, a great combination of instrument ranges and audio and mixing data. Congratulations, and thanks!

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by andyhix

Close, but I'm on IE.

Hmmm, can you tell me which version of IE and which version of Windows you're running? That *should* not be an issue in IE...at least it does not show up on any of the machines it was beta tested on.

But if it is indeed happening in IE for you as well, that may be something I can code fix for.

If you can tell me the above info, as well as whether you're getting the status bar along the bottom and whether the auto-hide on the task bar helps or not, that will hopefully help me zero in on a fix.

Thanks for the info!

G.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by SonicAlbert

I haven't checked all the instrument ranges yet, but violas go down to "C3", not "G3". They are strung the same as cellos but an octave up. It's correct on the bar chart but wrong in the info window.

EDIT/UPDATE: It looks like I accidentally used the fundamentals range for violin for viola as well. This has now been fixed.

Originally Posted by SonicAlbert

Likewise, it might be nice to have the bass chart go down to low "C" instead of low "E", since many string bass players have a C extension on their instrument. Yes, that's nit-picking, but the chart is so good why not get a little more detail in there?

Are you referring to a 5-string bass? If so, maybe I should specify it on the chart as a 4-string bass and add extra info for the 5-string in the detail info cell?

I'd like feedback from all the bass players out there on this one.

Thanks a bunch for your comments and your tips, Albie! They are much appreciated.

G.

[Freudian Slip]

Cool chart southSide Glen.

[masteringhouse]

G. does it again, Great job.

In version 2.0 it might be nice to re-create this in Flash and actually hear a sine wave corresponding with the frequencies as you rollover the various regions, or be able to play the note on the keyboard if you click on it.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

In version 2.0 it might be nice to re-create this in Flash and actually hear a sine wave corresponding with the frequencies as you rollover the various regions, or be able to play the note on the keyboard if you click on it.

I have considered something very close to that. During my research I came across a page that allows one to roughly chart their own ear/monitoring chain combined response curve via the playback of sine wave tones. I thought that might be a neat thing to include.

The idea has its problems, however; it's far from scientifically accurate and is subject to idiosyncracies in the response of one's sound card and monitoring chain. As such, I reamin unconvinced of it's usefulness as anything but a "k3wl idea", and might actually steer some folks in the wrog direction if they were to take the results as actual truth.

Nevertheless, I do have several other things in the works in the way of neato resources for the independant recorder. Stay tuned...

P.S. The viola typo has been fixed. Thanks Al.

G.

[SonicAlbert]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

Are you referring to a 5-string bass? If so, maybe I should specify it on the chart as a 4-string bass and add extra info for the 5-string in the detail info cell?

I'd like feedback from all the bass players out there on this one.

Five string electric basses come in a couple varieties: an added low "B" below the low "E", or an added high "C" above the "G" string. Most (or all) that I've seen have the added low "B".

Upright string basses have what's called a low C extension. It's a piece of hardware that fits on the top of the bass, where the scroll is. It can be switched in or out by a piece that clamps on the string, allowing the player to choose low "E" or low "C" as the bottom note of their instrument.

The low C extension is common among classical players, but I've worked with many bass players that have the C extension and are using it outside classical music.

The low C extension, along with the five string electric bass are probably not used a lot in your average garage band or on casuals, but seem fairly common among players doing sessions, shows, and tours, etc.

Maybe you could indicate these possible lower notes on the bass by using the same black bar that you used for the low range of the tuba and french horn.

[RAK]

Originally Posted by SonicAlbert

Maybe you could indicate these possible lower notes on the bass by using the same black bar that you used for the low range of the tuba and french horn.

Like a Boesendorfer.

Okay, so I just wanted to say Boesendorfer.

Anyone know where the umlat is on this thing?