upgrade questions

[daav]

THinking about selling my entry level kit and trying to get something a bit better sounding for recording. I was going to replace heads, but i think i might see about jsut replacing the whole damn thing soon.

My original kit is a sonor force 1001 with a 20 inch kick, two rack toms (8 and 10 inch i think) and a floor tom. I ahve an acrolight that i like well enough for the snare for now, and unless i pick somehting up as pat of a package, i will probably keep it, and my cymbals are ok to keep as well.

I am looking for a more powerful kick with a 22 incher probably, and i am only going to use one small tom and the floor tom. Primary use is for recording, not gigging, rock music, but i would really like to have something that sounds ok when laid back on as well.

So what would you get for just the drums for say, $400-600. I will be looking at used stuff first probably.

Daav

[daav]

OK going to try to bump this and be a bit more specific.

I am looking for a maple 4 piece set, shells and hardware about $600, for recording. I'd like to get something nice at a bargian used if possible, or possibly lookat a shell pack to get the most band for the buck. I am more interested in a musical sounding set with good tone than something powerful at the moment.
Thanks,
Daav

[tmix]

Daav,
I am not sure really how to direct you. But I will just offer some food for thought.
I have several kits. Some are more tailored for live play by evidenced by their size and tuning than recording.
By that I mean your playing habits and music styles will dictate what you need. Sometimes it is not the size of a drum as much as its tuning or head choice.

I have a small Maple / Basswood kit with a 18 inch kick (10 / 12 floor tom) that can sound massive recorded. It has to do with how punchy a smaller tom sounds when tuned to a pitch that really sings when you wack it. Clear heads have more a round sustaining note where as coated has a more focused dry note sound...
Sometimes folks bring these really huge kicks and toms in that sound great live because they have a big room in which the sounds can carry and develope, but when close miced they sound like big trashcans.. If you dont have a good sounding room where you can mic at a little distance you may want to stick with a smaller kit close miced.
I have a 22 inch kick that I often record for low pitched stuff or soft jazz, as well as a 20 inch one for a punchy cannon sound.
Unless your kit is plain trash, heads and tuning can make a HUGE difference.

I know I am just rambling... but there you go!

Tom

[marvkan]

I totally agree with TMIX and I think he wasn't rambling. My experience is exactly as he described. During all the years of studio work it never ceased to amaze me how round,full,punchy, and beautiful small drums sounded. Although I also had great results with my Ayotte and DW kicks (both 22 x 18), but always used smaller toms, snares and sometimes cymbals. Anyways, it wouldn't cost much to take TMIX's advice and try new heads. The usual winning combo of coated Ambassadors on top and clear Dips on the resonant side. The kick, I would would use a pinstripe or evans, either head with a "touch" of damping on the interior. Front head, on or off, depending on your taste. After that, if the kit warrants it, I would check with an expert if the shells are "true" (round) and also check the bearing edges. If your kit is decent, these relatively inexpensive mods will definitely improve your sound....good luck!

[Gamelan]

Check out some of the cheaper imported maple kits out there, maybe a used Pacific L/M/CX or the newer Gretch Catalina maple sets ($700 new). The Sonor 1001 is fine for young students but it's all basswood, a filler that's barely a step up from cardboard and a notch below luan. It's mostly used for making venetian blinds. Get a maple kit (or birch) and you will hear the difference, there's really no comparison.

[marvkan]

I wasn't aware that the catalinas are available in maple. Pretty sure their either birch in the lower end and mahogany in the "upper" (club mod). As far as DW Pacifics, the really low end EZ's are birch and all the other maple shells in the series start getting pricy (atleast $1000). I don't think you're offering viable alternatives to what you have called "venetian blind" drums. I think that "upgrading" what he has with heads and checking out the shell integrity would be money better spent. When he has the budget, he can then invest in a much higher quality kit and have the "upgraded" kit as a back up or practice kit. In my opinion as a past endorsee of Ayotte and Premier and now with just an artist affiliation (not full on endorsement) with DW, I have to say these are great drums! I think anything in their line, either collector series or the "high end" pacifics would be a serious consideration, IMHO......good luck again...

[Gamelan]

Check out musicians friend and just about every other music store for Gretsch Catalina maples. They're available all over the place for $700. Just because you aren't aware doesn't make it false. Pacific also had (discontinued) a very nice maple LX kit available for $800 most of this year (with hardware).

I mentioned venetian blinds because that is exactly what basswood is most often used for (look it up). It is not a musical wood in any way and doesn't bend well for shell making. It is a cheap filler, nothing more.

The Pacific EZ's are not birch. I don't know where this information is coming from but it is not accurate, not even close. Check the facts, please.

Obviously DW's are great drums. I have a set too. But there is a lot of good stuff between DW and basswood.

[2lim]

I would go with the new heads and a good tuning. I recently replaced the heads on my Pearl Maxwins(pieces of shit). They had the original heads from like, the 80's(just bought them off a friend who had the in his basement). Honestly, I now have a useable sound out of a kit that cost me 60$.


A good tune up works wonders!


Simon

[marvkan]

Woke up the wrong side of the bed? I'm not sure what prompted you to jump to the conclusion that I called a statement of yours false, but if you re-read what I posted, I think you'll realize that you have made an assumption!As far as an affordable catalina kit is concerned and within his budget, the club jazz is the one I was referring to. As far as the EZ, it is discontinued, I was considering it as a gift for a friend's kid. When I spoke to John Good re the kit , I'm pretty sure he told me that it wasn't maple,but that was a while back and I've discussed many things with him since then.I believe the language I used in trying to offer a suggestion to the original post was "I'm not sure". I still think modifying his present kit until he can afford a much higher quality kit is the way to go. I'll definitely take your advice and research my info, if you take mine ----"lighten up"......peace

[daav]

Just for fun , a follow up .

I ended up deciding to keep my shells a bit longer, and started out wtih a 20 inch EQ3 batter head yesteday, got it on, tuned it up, and it sounds pretty nice so far.
Going to start replacing the reso and other heads and see how it starts to sound then.

Daav.

[marvkan]

Originally Posted by daav

Just for fun , a follow up .

I ended up deciding to keep my shells a bit longer, and started out wtih a 20 inch EQ3 batter head yesteday, got it on, tuned it up, and it sounds pretty nice so far.
Going to start replacing the reso and other heads and see how it starts to sound then.

Daav.

I think that's a good way to start. Should help the rest of the kit, if all the shells are "true". Gotta tell you, real quickly--I do lot's of sessions (jingles) at a friend's studio and we kill ourselves laughing, because I've stopped bringing my "real" drums, just the pedals. Why? Because his piece of crap kick and snare,just sound so good in his room! The kit? We lovingly call it the "Costco" kit. It's been on atleast half a dozen national jingles, including "Hundai", "Nicorette" and "E-Harmony". Have fun and a great new year.....