Drums dynamic range

[PhiloBeddoe]

Seems to me that the dynamic range of drums in digital recording is the primary cause of low average loudness for my (rock) music, as opposed to tape where you can just push it and it flattens everything to a degree.

I like to keep dynamics to the music, but sometimes drum transients are just not realistic sounding on close mikes.

I can only think of three ways to deal with this, does anyone have any others?

1. Limit individual tracks - kick, snare, overheads, etc. to eliminate really high peaks.

2. Limit the drum group as a whole.

3. Just leave it and let mastering guy deal with it with his master limiter.

Many thanks for your thoughts.

[ecktronic]

I use a limiter on the kick, snare and toms sometimes. (never on OHs) No need to use it on the drum bus if used on the seperate tracks before.
I use the limiter only to catch stray peaksand not usually as a way to boost the level of the drums.
Best thing to do is to pull the rest of the mix down IMO.
Yes I would leave the volume boosting to the mastering engineer for sure. I usually make the drums a little louder in the mix as limiting at mastering can reduce the volume of drums.

Eck

[Farview]

Sometimes I use limiters on the individual drum tracks, but most of the time I use compressors, then I compress the drum buss.

[mixsit]

Originally Posted by ecktronic

I use a limiter on the kick, snare and toms sometimes. (never on OHs) No need to use it on the drum bus if used on the seperate tracks before.
I use the limiter only to catch stray peaksand not usually as a way to boost the level of the drums.

I think the point here (the OP's) is to catck the peaks so that you can raise the level of the drums. That could include the snare or some other drum poking up out of the kit mics or overheads as well. (edit. I guess I meant to say, sometimes the O/H's are the kit mics.

The 'point of diminishing returns-gotcha' would simply be where the cure gets to be sounding worse than the problem.

[Farview]

To look at it another way, try to accentuate the decay of the drums. That will sit in the mix better than the peaks.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by PhiloBeddoe

Seems to me that the dynamic range of drums in digital recording is the primary cause of low average loudness for my (rock) music, as opposed to tape where you can just push it and it flattens everything to a degree.

I like to keep dynamics to the music, but sometimes drum transients are just not realistic sounding on close mikes.

I can only think of three ways to deal with this, does anyone have any others?

1. Limit individual tracks - kick, snare, overheads, etc. to eliminate really high peaks.

2. Limit the drum group as a whole.

3. Just leave it and let mastering guy deal with it with his master limiter.

Many thanks for your thoughts.

I'm assuming by limit you're also allowing for a compressor in it's place.

I would also add parallel compression to the above. Essentially #2 but adding a bit of the uncompressed/limited group to the signal to restore some of the original attack.

You can only fit 25 liters of sh*t in a 25 liter bag. If you want to fit more, you have to use your foot to stomp it down.

[PhiloBeddoe]

Thanks for all the responses.

I guess I'm just looking to keep them in their place, not necessarily raise their level. There seem to be attack transients that are so brief they're sonically irrelevant, but digitally limit the average volume of the mix. It would seem that a look-ahead function would be necessary to supress these transients. Compressors aren't fast enough catch these peaks.

Accentuating the decay of the drums seems to be what I'm after sonically. I've been toying with a freeware transient designer plugin that definitely seems to help the snare. It can be put on a copied track and blended like parallel compression.

Just wondering how others deal with this and hoping that I'm not the only one that encounters low average loudness.

[LeeRosario]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

I'm assuming by limit you're also allowing for a compressor in it's place.

I would also add parallel compression to the above. Essentially #2 but adding a bit of the uncompressed/limited group to the signal to restore some of the original attack.

You can only fit 25 liters of sh*t in a 25 liter bag. If you want to fit more, you have to use your foot to stomp it down.

Ahh, otherwise "NY Compression". I was just about to say.

[Yareek]

I'm a pretty consistent drummer, so I don't use limiters, but on another drummer with close mics, I'd use them in a heartbeat. I have like limiters on bassists who DI and can't play worth a damn.

I usually use a compressor at 2 or 3 to 1 ratio to knock a couple dB's off the top on peaks on my stuff if it's not smooth enough...if that wasn't enough I'd stick a limiter either on the drum bus or the track itself.

I've been mixing out the drums lately on their own, maybe with a drum bus comp or 2-bus comp giving a little glue, then i'll mix everything else in, and if the drums get lost a bit in the mix, i'll send the snare, some kick a bit of overheads and toms to another bus and smash the hell out of them. Then mix it in kind of quiet but just enough to reinforce the drums. That's how I do it, but I'm no pro

[Farview]

Compressors are fast enough. You just have to set the m correctly. You also have to have the release set pretty quick, or you will just be turning down the decay as well.