Gating Drums

[dzara 4]

hi ,

I just started recording drums and would appreciate some advice on using gates.

Currently I am using one mic on my kick, another mic on the snare , a condenser by the hi hat and one above the set. I having the common problem with bleeding
parts. such as to much snare on hi hat track , and to much hi hat on the snare track. I am pretty sure that if I had a hi hat track with to much snare i would just
use the the snare as the side chain and vice a versus to try and just get that sound.would it screw things up if i used side chaining on every drum part?

Any advice would really help .


Thanks

[metalhead28]

Do you really need the high hat mic? I'm wondering why you don't so some sort of stereo set up with 2 overheads instead.
When you mic the snare, make sure you somehow get the hats in the null of the mic so you don't pick up too much. Maybe you need to rotate the mic around the snare drum a little, perhaps aiming away from the hats.
Same with the hihat mic. If the problem is really bad I'm sure you could help it with placement.

Gating drums is obviously pretty common. If you know what you're doing and can make it sound natural and not destroy the tracks, why not?

[SuicideNote]

It's pretty hard to gate drums with sever mic bleed. I've tried and I usually ended up leaving the gate off because it would chop some of the original drum being miced. In my case it was a result of the drummer not hitting the snare hard enough. Damn drummers.

[scrubs]

Mic positioning will help. Make sure the snare mic is positioned so the hat is in the null of the pickup pattern (presuming you're using a cardioid/hypercardioid on snare). I agree that a hat mic is not needed. Use a stereo overhead setup (XY, ORTF) or spaced pair (Recorderman's is my current fave). I occasionally gate the snare and kick mics, but work on isolation first.

[chessrock]

When you consider the physics of it all ... a hi-hat mic is really no more than a snare mic that's somewhat off-axis and positioned up a little higher than normal.

When you have two sound sources that are that close together and that loud ... it doesn't make sense to consider one as somehow being isolated from the other. Nor does it make any sense to actually consider the other sound "bleed."

I mean a snare is fucking loud. And you've got a mic right over it. Just because it happens to be pointed at the hi-hat is of very little consequence. No microphone is that directional, and if it exists, it would probably create as many (recording) problems as it attempts to solve. So the idea of achieving sonic isolation in the same way one has with the vocal track being separate from the guitar and bass, etc. isn't a realisitc, logical, or even desireable goal (in many cases)... unless you're dealing with electronic percussion.

Once you understand that, then hopefully you'll be a little closer to understanding the answer to your question. Hopefully. In other words ... consider the side-chaining as more of an "effect" or a "technique." And if that effect or technique works for you, then use it. And if it doesn't, don't. But it would be a fallacy to think of it as anything more than what it is.
.

[Farview]

Lets not forget the drummer in all of this. If you are really having a bleed problem, it probably has something to do with the drummer pounding the crap out of the hats and politely tapping the snare.

Having snare in the hat mic isn't as big a problem as hat in the snare mic.

If you are one of those guys that is trying to isolate and control everything individually, you are fighting a losing battle. The drums are one instrument, not a collection of individual instruments.

[ecktronic]

Raising the hi hats up a bit, and setting the snare so it is further away from the hats can reduce bleed a good deal. That along with good mic placement and the drummer making sure he hits the hats, and cymbals quite quiet and hitting the toms and snare and kick hard will result in alot less bleed.

Eck

[evhwanabe]

Check your gain for each mic.... you might have a couple or all mics too hot. Sometimes simply lowering the gain will help get rid of un-wanted bleed. Positioning as everyone else has said will help as well.

[HangDawg]

Originally Posted by ecktronic

Raising the hi hats up a bit, and setting the snare so it is further away from the hats can reduce bleed a good deal. That along with good mic placement and the drummer making sure he hits the hats, and cymbals quite quiet and hitting the toms and snare and kick hard will result in alot less bleed.

Eck

Show me a drummer that will move his shit all over the place like that and I'll eat my hat.

I've taken a different approach lately. Instead of trying to get rid of the hat bleed into the snare mic I've been try to get more of it and be balanced with the snare. I've done tracks where I should of used a hat mic because I removed too much bleed. Huh, yeah that sucks.

[timthetortoise]

I've had a couple recordings with a lot of bleed problems, and Drumagog effectively saved my ass.

[K.P.]

forget the Hi-Hat mic...

use this technique

mic 1 - dead center over the snare about 2-1/2 sticks length from the snare

mic 2 - over the player's shoulder pointed at the snare kick area, the same distance from the snare as mic 1

...and both mics the same distance from the kick head/beater strike point

each mic can be positionally adjusted a bit and rotating the snare mic a tad will adjust the hi-hat level and rotating the shoulder mic will adjust the ride level.

close mic the snare, kick and toms and invert the necessary mics for proper phase with the overheads. time sliding close miced tracks to align with the overhead can be beneficial.

hit the drums hard and finesse the cymbals

learn this technique and you'll be a happy camper...

here's a thread presently discussing it...

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by HangDawg

Show me a drummer that will move his shit all over the place like that and I'll eat my hat.

A few drummers I have worked with have trusted me when I say that the end results will be better if the kit is moved about a bit. Obviously you dont want to move the kit so much that the drummer finds it uncumfortable to play.

Eck

[K.P.]

why move the kit at all...

[TuoKaerf]

Remember that some bleed isn't bad. Excessive bleed yes, but with good mic placement, you should be fine.

I usually only gate the kick and toms.