2 questions about levels

What's an ideal (peak) level to be mixing at? Or is there one? I usually try to keep it at about -6db.

And what's the ideal average level the mixdown should be at before sending it off to a ME? I usually try to keep it at around -12db. Is this enough "headroom" for the mastering process? Too much?

What do the mastering engineers here prefer?

[Massive Master]

-6dBFS is fine... It's a nice place to be.

Average levels on a mix like that would be around -24 to -22dBRMS... Also fine and a nice place to be.

I'm *assuming* that when you say "average levels" you mean the average *peak* level... Otherwise, -12dBRMS with peaks at -6dBFS would be a nightmare sounding thing...

[ecktronic]

My mixes usually turn out at around -20 (to 25) dB RMS with peaks at 0dB.
Is this ok?
I place a limiter on the output but it only catches the odd kick or snare hit.

Eck

Originally Posted by Massive Master

-6dBFS is fine... It's a nice place to be.

Average levels on a mix like that would be around -24 to -22dBRMS... Also fine and a nice place to be.

I'm *assuming* that when you say "average levels" you mean the average *peak* level... Otherwise, -12dBRMS with peaks at -6dBFS would be a nightmare sounding thing...

Yea I'm talking about the average peak level in db as it shows on the VU meter in the DAW.

I don't have any RMS meters in Reaper, so I don't know what the RMS level is... I think there's some plugins for that though...

So, a mixdown with peaks no greater than 12db is enough headroom?

Eh, I'm confused. I've read about RMS along time ago but I'm still not completely sure what it means and I get confused between RMS and DBFS

[Farview]

Originally Posted by danny.guitar

Yea I'm talking about the average peak level in db as it shows on the VU meter in the DAW.

Your DAW doesn't have VU meters.

Originally Posted by danny.guitar

I don't have any RMS meters in Reaper, so I don't know what the RMS level is... I think there's some plugins for that though...

RMS means (more or less in this situation) average. Not the average peak level, but the actual average level of the signal.

Originally Posted by danny.guitar

So, a mixdown with peaks no greater than 12db is enough headroom?

More than enough

Originally Posted by danny.guitar

Eh, I'm confused. I've read about RMS along time ago but I'm still not completely sure what it means and I get confused between RMS and DBFS

DBfs is the scale the meters in your software read. dbVU is the scale the meters on your mixer read.

RMS just means average. For example if you had a signal that had an average strength of -18dbfs, you could say the signal was -18dbfs RMS. If you had a signal that peaked at -18dbfs, you would say the signal was -18dbfs peak.

Ah that makes sense.

Thanks Farview.

[masteringhouse]

Not too much to add to the above other than I wouldn't get very nervous if some peaks even went as far as -1 dBFS in the mix. The more important issue is the crest factor (difference between the peak and the RMS ). I'll take a mix with a good dynamic range that peaks high over the reverse any day.

For an average rock song, I would say that a crest factor of 20 db or more should be fine to work with.

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

For an average rock song, I would say that a crest factor of 20 db or more should be fine to work with.

Nice one, so im on the right tracks then.

Eck

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by ecktronic

Nice one, so im on the right tracks then.

Eck

Yep!

There are also considerations in analog versus digital mixes. If taken too far in the analog world the signal to noise ratio of the devices you are using becomes a bigger factor. In general I would say that it's best to operate gear at their "nominal" level. Not too hot, not too cold.

(unless you actually want distortion or noise for creative reasons)

[Massive Master]

@ Eck - On the snare thing... If you're limiting the *buss* to catch an occasional snare transient, try limiting *the snare* instead - Then the whole mix isn't subjected to the gain reduction - if even for an instant.

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by Massive Master

@ Eck - On the snare thing... If you're limiting the *buss* to catch an occasional snare transient, try limiting *the snare* instead - Then the whole mix isn't subjected to the gain reduction - if even for an instant.

Yeah Ive done that before, suppose its just me getting into bad habits placing one on the master out. Cheers all.

Eck